Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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M00seUK
Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295
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Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Original Message Jan 17, 2008 3:54 pm |
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Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #30 Jan 18, 2008 11:14 pm |
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Hi, My feeling re CR and bagless vacuums is that the issue of "tidy" emptying is still solved. Mind you, this can be no different than what was going on with vacuums with permanent bags way back in the day that led to the welcoming of disposable dust bags. CR was and reamined highly critical of disposable dust bags with wide mouths or that for whatever reason, by way of manner of removal, etc., promoted notable exposure to dust. MH, I know your going to tell me that that problem is minimized by frequent emptying, and I thoroughly agree, but again I say the average consumer is out to merely buy another tool to facilitate care of the home. In light of that, the issue is and has always been -- what's simple, what's easy. There are those that may find stopping to empty their cleaner several times during cleaning day or having to fuss around with plastic bags to dump full containers into a bit bothersome. Where I personally might not be overly bothered by the keeping of a Rainbow or even the simpler washing of filters now and then there are lots of people who can't be bothered with it. The realities of maintenance are usually skirted when a sale is in the process and a lot of buyers of bagless machines are left to think that it will be business as usual the same way it was the bagged vacuums they'd been familiar with. I don't think CR is particularly biased re bagless just, in this at least, aware of the consumer's desire for not only what's affordable but also easy. My greatest fear for Hoover is that to TTI it may just be a name to sell. When the name is finally run down, they will either find some alleged new innovation with a new name or buy up another old name and ride on it ontil they run it into the ground as well. The Hoover we knew was an organization that appeared to bear a semblance of pride in the product it put forth and sales came. It took risks on ideas. The market today is not interested in risk but in making money which means you sell anything you've got any way you can sell it. Not a bright picture for consumers. Best, Venson Hi Venson, I agree. While frequent emptying doesn't eliminate the problem completely (especially on fine dust pickup), it does help quite a bit I've found. The way I see it is one small step at a time. It will be solved eventually, making the dustcloud a thing of the past. Look how far we've come already, first the cloth shakeout bag, then the disposable bags, now the bin. Regarding Hoover, I don't think TTI is going to do that to the brand, at least that wasn't the initial impression I got. They seem to have picked up where Hoover left off, continuing existing machines and using a proprietary design on the new models...no "rebadged Dirt Devils" as we had all feared. I predict in the very near future, TTI/Hoover will put much of their effort into the dual-cyclonic Mach series design in order to compete with Dyson and others that use a true cyclonic design, i.e. Bissell and LG/Kenmore. But that's just a wild guess. Hi DIB, Great pictures and information you provided about these as always, especially the inner workings of the Ball up close. And it's still mind-boggling seeing the compact size of the DC22! The sales figures are impressive as well, any way you look at it. We know that James Dyson has been designing vacuums since 1983 (24 years right there to the end of '07). That's all well and good and worth mentioning in the press release, but we can't really get a good yearly production average out of that because I'm willing to bet he did not sell very many machines in the early years. So saying 1 million machines per year would be just a *bit* inaccurate. The yearly sales figures are likely very staggered in reality. Besides, I know Dyson has been more successful than that, especially in recent years ;-) Just out of curiosity, how long have machines produced under the Dyson brandname existed in the UK? I want to say 1990 but I'm probably wrong. -MH
This message was modified Jan 18, 2008 by Motorhead
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #31 Jan 19, 2008 7:21 am |
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Just out of curiosity, how long have machines produced under the Dyson brandname existed in the UK? I want to say 1990 but I'm probably wrong.
-MH
The dyson G-force sold door to door starting in 1983. From 1982-84 dyson tried to sell the design to European firms. No luck. He sold the rights to an American firm in 1984. The buyer pulled out. Dyson took it to Japan and it was successful. Dyson sued his former American licensee for patent infringement over a machine brought out after the breakup. It was settled and with the royalties dyson built the 1992 Malmesbury plant. Dyson's dual cyclone in both upright and canister was launched in the UK in 1993. You can say that the lawsuit proceeds financed dyson's vacuum launch.
The dyson sales have not been consistently one million a year. But for lack of the sales data and statistics, which jaydee holds close to his vest, an average can only be estimated by doing the simple math. Units divided by years. You can extrapolate the sales number further to the countries where the products are sold. This further reduces market share by units in any one geographic location. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say Japan would be dyson's best vacuum sales market [not the UK as one may think]. Quite the contrary only one third of the Brits buy dysons every year. So the majority of Brits buy and use another brand vacuum not dyson. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jan 19, 2008 by CarmineD
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #32 Jan 19, 2008 6:00 pm |
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #34 Jan 19, 2008 6:47 pm |
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Baby dyson ball won't get under furniture, beds, sofa, and cushion chairs. Not with that huge monstrosity of a ball wheel. Ditch the ball wheel, make the dirt bin larger, put some rear wheels on the power head, drop the price by half, and it will sell a million units in the first year in the USA. Carmine D.
This message was modified Jan 19, 2008 by CarmineD
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Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #35 Jan 19, 2008 7:08 pm |
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There was a bagless cleaner sold via the "Innovations" Catalogue in 1988/89 (small technology catalogue, normally enclosed with the weekend papers). I think this machine had the dry-powder cleaning function. It was rather expensive, about double that of the Hoovers and Electroluxes at the time. The trouble is, I cannot remember if it was sold as "Dyson" or if it was one of those "Iona" imported cleaners. (I believe some were imported, am I correct?) I remember those. Here it was sold as the NovaDry, and then later the Capture Drytech machine. One of the things I found interesting about these was that the instructions said that it was not to be used as a regular vacuum cleaner. This was because the suction inlet/ducting was a small diameter...it could handle the dry powder (and the debris within) but not larger dirt. I found this out later. -MH
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Motorhead
Joined: Nov 2, 2007
Points: 409
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #36 Jan 19, 2008 7:11 pm |
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Baby dyson ball won't get under furniture, beds, sofa, and cushion chairs. Not with that huge monstrosity of a ball wheel. Ditch the ball wheel, make the dirt bin larger, put some rear wheels on the power head, drop the price by half, and it will sell a million units in the first year in the USA. Carmine D. Hi DIB, Again, great information. This picture clearly shows the small size of the machine; I couldn't really tell from watching the Gizmodo video or looking at the website. Very neat, the more I see it the more I want one. If it had the DDM I'd spring for one in a split-second.
Hi Carmine, The reason for the large ball wheel is probably because that the motor is contained within (and the motor's large size). The reason the Slim has a smaller ball, I believe, is that the motor is mounted differently. One way they *could* possibly make the ball smaller on the DC24 is to put a DDM in it. I understand the DDM is smaller and since it turns at such a high speed, it does not need to have a large fan. Since it's a small machine it would be the perfect candidate for the DDM. Then again, that's just my wishful thinking for a DDM-equipped US machine taking over ;-) -MH
This message was modified Jan 19, 2008 by Motorhead
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iMacDaddy
Electrolux UltraOne EL7070, Bissell BigGreen Deep Cleaning Machine
Joined: Oct 30, 2007
Points: 110
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #37 Jan 20, 2008 3:28 am |
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So does the Dyson DC25 use Core Seperation? If not, why? And furthermore, what's with the design of the motorhead; it looks like it has a dual brushroll set-up going on. Also, isn't the DC24 a bit of a redundancy, especially next to the DC18? Overall, not bad for a heavily redesigned DC15, however, I would also like to see the DC17 brushroll, Level 3/Core Seperation, and possibly the DDM on a Dyson Ball model one of these days. But for now, I will be sticking with my DC18. Update: I just read on a retailers site that the DC25 only weight 12 pounds; very impressive. It is listed as a pre-order item only for $499, and they say it will ship in mid-March....Basically, the DC18 has nothing that stands out.
This message was modified Jan 20, 2008 by iMacDaddy
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #38 Jan 20, 2008 7:14 am |
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The reason for the large ball wheel is probably because that the motor is contained within (and the motor's large size). The reason the Slim has a smaller ball, I believe, is that the motor is mounted differently.
-MH
Probably so. For a lightweight supposedly quick and easy daily user, the huge monster mounted ball wheel defeats the baby dyson ball purpose. It limits the vacuum's usage rather than increasing it which is the purpose of the ball: More manueverability. Not under the bed, furniture and low cushionn chairs. User still has to move the furniture out of the way to clean underneath. I'd use the $35 HOOVER Cordless Slider and/or Oreck Classic.
Carmine D.
This message was modified Jan 20, 2008 by CarmineD
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iMacDaddy
Electrolux UltraOne EL7070, Bissell BigGreen Deep Cleaning Machine
Joined: Oct 30, 2007
Points: 110
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Re: Dyson DC24 / DC25 Vacs: Sir James Brings his Ball back
Reply #39 Jan 20, 2008 8:36 am |
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Probably so. For a lightweight supposedly quick and easy daily user, the huge monster mounted ball wheel defeats the baby dyson ball purpose. It limits the vacuum's usage rather than increasing it which is the purpose of the ball: More manueverability. Not under the bed, furniture and low cushionn chairs. User still has to move the furniture out of the way to clean underneath. I'd use the $35 HOOVER Cordless Slider and/or Oreck Classic. Carmine D. I really don't think people vacuum blindly under furniture/beds blindly; there is always rubbish like coins, socks, small toys, or other large debris than can cause serious damage to your machine. I would seriously think that people who operate $300-$600 vacuum cleaners would be more mindful of that than someone who could care less about maintaining a working vacuum cleaner and regularly cycle through $50 bargain vacs. I always move my furniture/beds before vacuuming the carpet under them, or get down and inspect the floor underneath with the cleaning wand in hand to clean under those hard to reach areas. As long as the Dyson Ball vacs have that low profile motorhead that can roll under extruded kitchen/bathroom cabinets, I could care less if I can't blindly ram it under a couch or a bed, because IMO, that's asking for trouble.
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