Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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iMacDaddy
Electrolux UltraOne EL7070, Bissell BigGreen Deep Cleaning Machine
Joined: Oct 30, 2007
Points: 110
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Dyson DC22
Original Message Oct 30, 2007 9:38 am |
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mole
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Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #41 Mar 14, 2008 9:14 am |
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IT's more than likely about air movement,Canisters with all the hoses and powerheads attached,the cfm drops [not suction but the speed of the suction].Dyson has to play with shroud location ,shroud size, the smaller diameter the the more static suction is created,sort of like sucking liquid throuh a straw,The machine has to move so much air through it before it can even think about cleaning.Hence ,why it could be called a VACUUM CLEANER.] Yes the cyclones block after a certain time,i just wish they were easy for the owners to clean ............ MOLE
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bucks03
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
Points: 76
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #43 Mar 14, 2008 9:47 am |
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IT's more than likely about air movement,Canisters with all the hoses and powerheads attached,the cfm drops [not suction but the speed of the suction].Dyson has to play with shroud location ,shroud size, the smaller diameter the the more static suction is created,sort of like sucking liquid throuh a straw,The machine has to move so much air through it before it can even think about cleaning.Hence ,why it could be called a VACUUM CLEANER.] Yes the cyclones block after a certain time,i just wish they were easy for the owners to clean ............ MOLE Mole I understand what you are saying but I am also refering to the Uprights not just the cylinder machines. Also the shrouds were smaller on the first models which were able to produce a large amount of scution power, look at The DC07, its shroud isn't that big and it was the most pwerful Dyson in the UK even when they started putting 1200Watt motors as opposed to the 1400Watts they used to use before. Only Dyson engineers have the answer to this answer. I have never encountered a problem with cyclone blocking on my DC04, DC05 or handheld DC16. The only problem I ever have is that long hair escapes from the cyclone and when I take out the filter there is long hair on it, this isn't an issue.
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Venson
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #44 Mar 14, 2008 11:42 am |
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Hello Bucks03: I'm with you. BTW, Filter Queen and Lewyt called the shrouds: "Circular shields." Made of aluminum. Paper thin filters called 'cones' [because of their shape] was the only separation of the shroud from the dirt. Carmine D. Hi Carmine,
I see the mechanisms as different. Filter Queen and Lewyt's filter paper and/or cellulose cones were intended to be a physical barrier between the fan chamber and the contents of the dust container in lieu of the conventional dust bags they did not employ. Their conical shaped filters allowed more filtering surface than competitors of similar ilk at the time like Fairfax and Silver King. Both of those brands employed flat, round filters that fitted between their dust containers and motor units. The metal cones in the FQ and Lewyt served more to make the conical filters keep their form. So-called cyclonic action was employed to help keep dirt off the filter cones by the air swirl produced when air entered the dust container. Air was deflected to the left, at least in Filter Queen, with the intention of keeping dirt collection on the cone to the minimum and suction to the maximum because of the whirling air. I know from experience that this works for a time but eventually dust, fluff and debris begin to build up behind the deflector eventulally reducing the usable surface area on the filter cone. This did not prove a serious problem to me as FQ can maintain good suction and clean well nder normal conditions for a good amount of time even if the ideal "cyclonic situation" isn't happening internally. In true cyclonic bagless vacuums, if there is such a term, the intention is to use the centrifical force of induced air-swirls to fling off the dust and dirt carried into the machine to such a degree that minimal filtering medium is all that's needed to capture dust still in the air stream after it exits the dust container. As I said, that's the intention but once the shroud begins to collect debris -- fluff, hair, bits of paper, etc. -- cyclonic filtering capability decreases and residual dirt in the air stream after the process increases. That is why frequent emptying is required AND why I don't necessarily feel that much ahead of the game on way or another due to it. I'd be glad to see this same technology applied to a portable machine with larger dust capacity than generally available today to help keep the principles used for cyclonics at their optimum with less need for emptying. Best, Venson
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #46 Mar 14, 2008 2:15 pm |
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Hi Carmine, I see the mechanisms as different. Filter Queen and Lewyt's filter paper and/or cellulose cones were intended to be a physical barrier between the fan chamber and the contents of the dust container in lieu of the conventional dust bags they did not employ. Their conical shaped filters allowed more filtering surface than competitors of similar ilk at the time like Fairfax and Silver King. Both of those brands employed flat, round filters that fitted between their dust containers and motor units. The metal cones in the FQ and Lewyt served more to make the conical filters keep their form. So-called cyclonic action was employed to help keep dirt off the filter cones by the air swirl produced when air entered the dust container. Air was deflected to the left, at least in Filter Queen, with the intention of keeping dirt collection on the cone to the minimum and suction to the maximum because of the whirling air. I know from experience that this works for a time but eventually dust, fluff and debris begin to build up behind the deflector eventulally reducing the usable surface area on the filter cone. This did not prove a serious problem to me as FQ can maintain good suction and clean well nder normal conditions for a good amount of time even if the ideal "cyclonic situation" isn't happening internally. In true cyclonic bagless vacuums, if there is such a term, the intention is to use the centrifical force of induced air-swirls to fling off the dust and dirt carried into the machine to such a degree that minimal filtering medium is all that's needed to capture dust still in the air stream after it exits the dust container. As I said, that's the intention but once the shroud begins to collect debris -- fluff, hair, bits of paper, etc. -- cyclonic filtering capability decreases and residual dirt in the air stream after the process increases. That is why frequent emptying is required AND why I don't necessarily feel that much ahead of the game on way or another due to it. I'd be glad to see this same technology applied to a portable machine with larger dust capacity than generally available today to help keep the principles used for cyclonics at their optimum with less need for emptying. Best, Venson Hello Venson:
Similar in that today's shroud, as on dysons, separates the large debris in one cyclone from the 2 nd intermediary and 3rd fine cyclones. The paper cones serve this purpose in addition to the perforated conical assembly keeping all the dirt large and small from the motor. Particularly if the users did not dump the base regularly, which we know is a dyson [bagless vacuum] caveat. Interestingly, Lewyt [do it] changed to the see thru speed saks in the very early 50's. And still claimed these as superior to dust cloth bags. BTW, dyson in its product literature claims it's the only true cyclone vacuum. Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 14, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #47 Mar 14, 2008 2:24 pm |
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Mole I understand what you are saying but I am also refering to the Uprights not just the cylinder machines. Also the shrouds were smaller on the first models which were able to produce a large amount of scution power, look at The DC07, its shroud isn't that big and it was the most pwerful Dyson in the UK even when they started putting 1200Watt motors as opposed to the 1400Watts they used to use before. Only Dyson engineers have the answer to this answer. I have never encountered a problem with cyclone blocking on my DC04, DC05 or handheld DC16. The only problem I ever have is that long hair escapes from the cyclone and when I take out the filter there is long hair on it, this isn't an issue.
Bucks03;
As I said, I'm with you. The DC07 perorated shroud is much smaller than the DC14 and DC15. The DC17 reverts back to the smaller DC07 shroud and perforations area than the DC14 and DC15. As I mentioned in the HSN dyson demo, dyson Dave made sure the the big debris [cat litter which he suctioned up using the hose] was off the shroud perforations by leveling off the dirt bin contents. Then, he proceeded to vacuum up the pet hair in rug mode and the coffee grinds in bare floor mode. This maneuver was key to the demo. Had he not, the intermediary and fine dirt/debris would not have made it to the 2-3 cyclones. Did you email dyson and ask about the shroud sizes and perforations? Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 14, 2008 by CarmineD
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #48 Mar 14, 2008 2:44 pm |
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You know it really makes me wonder ,after listening and reading about this cyclonic nonsense,my conclusion is that it works as good as a top loading filter bag. Any Comments.................... MOLE
Mole:
I say NO cyclonic filtration does not work as well as bagged vacuums in household venues! Why? Dyson's own rethinking/revising the pre-motor filter maintenance caveats [from a very cavalier and non-chalant once is enough every 5-6 months to make sure at least every 3 months to maintain the warranty ] is prima facie evidence from dyson [IMHO]. Why? If more evidence is needed, look at the constant dyson changing in the cyclones' positions, numbers, shroud configurations and bin sizes. Why? To force the user to make more frequent bin dumping? Again: The inevitable Why? Which brings me back to BUCKS03's question, point and post. Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 14, 2008 by CarmineD
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mole
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Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #49 Mar 14, 2008 3:04 pm |
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O.K. Carmine i understand,,we can only guess as to why they keep playing around with their set ups,2 reasons could be that 1 they are just spending R@D money to keep the engineers busy. 2 or just cant figure out why this revolutionary [so called], system just does not work for real customers in real homes in the real world........... MOLE
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Dyson DC22
Reply #50 Mar 14, 2008 7:14 pm |
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O.K. Carmine i understand,,we can only guess as to why they keep playing around with their set ups,2 reasons could be that 1 they are just spending R@D money to keep the engineers busy. 2 or just cant figure out why this revolutionary [so called], system just does not work for real customers in real homes in the real world........... MOLE
Mole:
Apparently, dyson slightly reduced/reclassified the job positions of its engineers since the number has decreased a tad over time. My sense is that your latter reason is correct. Try as it does dyson just can't get the right bagless application. IMHO that's the reason for the major rethinking/revision in the dyson filter maintenance. As long as the warranty was 2 years, it wasn't an issue. A nebulous passing word of instruction was adequate. Saying that cleaning once is enough every 5-6 months unless heavy duty use. But with the 5 year dyson warranty, users MUST perform more frequent filter care [read maintenance] to ensure the 5 years. And more frequent washings degrade the pre-motor filter performance. Meaning more filter replacements over 5 years. Which are not covered under the warranty. What do the filters cost? $18 plus tax? What is the advantage of bagless over bagged? Instead of buying bags, the bagless users [dyson too] are buying and replacing filters. And bin dumping more often than changing paper bags. Plus paying a premium high up front price for it. Carmine D.
This message was modified Mar 14, 2008 by CarmineD
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