Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dusty:
I explained to you that the reason dyson gets the approval from the Allergy and Asthma Foundation is the elaborate 2 pages of directions with illustrations in its Users Manual for the proper dumping of the dyson dirt bin by asthma and allergy sufferers.



Yes, this is what you explained.  Was this a fact or once again your professional opinion?  When I look at the testing requirement from the website I find that there is no mention of an elaborate user manual.  Where were you getting your facts from?  The testing procedure follows....

WHAT IS A VACUUM CLEANER CERTIFICATION STANDARD?
Vacuum cleaners that are certified asthma & allergy friendly™ are tested to the ASP-VC-01: 07
Vacuum Cleaner Certification Standard.
The Certification Standard utilizes an algorithm of proprietary and recognized scientific techniques
to assess vacuum cleaners for their ability to reduce allergenic and irritant materials, both when new
and after extended use. Submitted vacuum cleaner models that pass certification testing are granted
a certificate stating that the particular vacuum cleaner meets the requirements for the asthma &
allergy friendly™ ASP-VC-01: 07 Certification Standard.
Allergy Standards Ltd (ASL) subjects the vacuum cleaner to allergen and particle count-based
performance testing to ensure that the vacuum cleaner reduces total allergen burden, while
minimising any increase in airborne allergen levels.
The Vacuum Cleaner Certification Standard includes:
(a) Evaluation of capability to remove allergen-containing test dust from carpets
(b) Evaluation of airborne allergen levels during vacuuming
(c) Evaluation of the integrity of the air filtration system
(d) Assessment of the performance of the vacuum cleaner immediately prior to activation of
bag replacement / receptacle emptying signal and filter change signal
(e) Assessment of exposure to allergens during bag change or receptacle emptying
If you require further information on this aspect of testing please contact:
standards@allergystandards.com

My answer to you and to him is the same:  Never sell a product [vacuum or other] for the profit in it.  Not if you are in business for the long term.

So we should sell for the warm fuzzy feelings we get when we make a sale?  How can one last in business when that is the case.  We try and choose the best product we can with a decent enough margin to continue in business.  I personally believe Dyson is the best bagless vac on the market, I have no problem selling it.  We also carry product that we feel is a good customer buy that margins are limited on..we have to have these to compete with box stores.  If we were to rely on them completely we'd have closed up shop years ago.  The vacuum business is like any other business...high end products return higher profits.  You think Cadillac is that much better than any of it's GM counterparts?  Same cars, different trims much bigger profits.

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

My my, good fellow.  What a web of deception mortals weave when they begin to deceive.

In your latest position on certifications here  [after I pointed out the contradiction of your 2 posts: One in support of a professional association cert for dyson (which accepts fees for services) and another in objection to a cert from a professional organization (for accepting fees) that you said you take all certs/approvals with a grain of salt.  Neither for and/or against.  You just mention them for argument's sake. 

Now you quote the testing process and appear to have had an epiphany!  Would you like to change your mind on the subject?  Again?  4 times in a week.  Flip, flop, flip, flop where will he stop?  

Isn't it a well known fact that dyson paid to have the testing and cert?  Isn't it also a well known fact that you question the objectivity of any cert/approval granted by an organization that accepts a fee for the service?  Then, based on these factual statements, you can't accept the dyson approval and not the CRI approval?  Regardless of the tests/bases for passing and approval.

You are right.  Maybe you should start a separate thread devoted just to vacuum certs and approvals.  In fact, one thread just for your posts on the matter.  Seems you have all the bases covered: For, against, neutral and then back through and start all over again.

Carmine D.

Dusty,

I do not know how long you have been reading Carmine's slander against Dyson.  I will give a little background anyway.

By his own admittance he did not make his money on vacuum sales yet he has boasted how profitable his business was.  There was more profit in selling junk and then charging for supplies, parts and repairs. 

He closed his business before Dyson came along so he did not make money of any kind on Dyson.  it is simple to do the math on where he made money.  After selling the shop he consulted.  I suspect that he gave a client bad (biased and bogus information about Dyson) and was fired.  Dyson make a monkey of him.

He has been responsible for getting at least one vac forum closed because of his Dyson bashing.  Now as back then he bashes Dyson on every post regardless of the topic.  If we talked about concrete he would bring Dyson up.  I am sure that Mr. Dyson is flattered that his products are the standard for comparison.  Carmine told us for years that Hoover would be the demise of Dyson.  That is history and he had to eat CROW.  Recently his wife introduced him to Oreck so it has become his torch to carry.  Really, a self proclaimed expert not knowing that the Oreck was superior to Hoover.   He shafted a lot of customers with the junk he sold when he should have been selling Oreck.

Carmine will tell half truths ( or less ) to try and make him self apprear intelligent.  You have probably noticed that Carmine always answers a question with several questions when he is caught in a lie. 

Some days he is calm.  That could be when he takes all his medications at the home.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

Thank you for a good laugh.  Boasted of profit?  Me?  In the vacuum business?  I was thrilled to eek out a living for myself and family.  

Like I said before when the money mavens here boast of their dyson profits, I was in the vacuum business at the wrong time 1949-1992.  The sign in my store read:  We collect Federal, state and local taxes, and do a little business on the side.  It was that too.  A little business.  If that's boasting of business profit, you give the words a whole new meaning.   Certainly would not be the Standard Webster's Collegiate.

The advantage I had over many others, including you HS, is that I was my own boss.  For that dear privilege I gave up the promise of more money and perks of a cushy corporate job for 40 plus years.  When my store was closed there was no business done.  When there was no business being done, there was no money coming in.  No money.  No pay.  No such thing as days off with pay.  There was no paid vacation.  No sick days with pay.  No time off.  No paid holidays.  No 401 K.  No stock plan and options.  No employer paid health benefits.  Not for me.  Not in the vacuum business. 

Carmine D. 

Now you quote the testing process and appear to have had an epiphany!

I only quoted due to the fact that YOU claimed the reason Dyson was accredited was due to a users manual.  I asked you if this was fact or your opinion.  You have refused to answer and decided to ramble on about the same things you've gone over in many previous posts.  It was a simple question, I don't know what the big deal is.  If you ask something of me, I answer it.  I ask something of you, I get a song and dance.

I'll ask you again.  Were you speaking from fact or was it your own opinion?  If it was the latter you should really say as such.

Isn't it a well known fact that dyson paid to have the testing and cert?  Isn't it also a well known fact that you question the objectivity of any cert/approval granted by an organization that accepts a fee for the service?  Then, based on these factual statements, you can't accept the dyson approval and not the CRI approval?

I do not not for a fact that any of the companies pay to have product tested.  I do know that one requires membership, the other may (and I'm not sure because I haven't seen the requirements) require machines to be submitted. That is what I know.  I still stand by that if money is being put forth by companies wanting tests done that there is always the possibility of money talking for higher ratings.

I have answered your questions.  It wasn't hard.  Perhaps now you could answer mine.  I'll help you if you like...the answer is either Yes, it was fact or No, it was just my opinion at the time.  Gotta love multiple choice, makes things so much easier when you simplify things down.


Dusty

Hi Hardsell,

Thanks for the Carmine update.  I've caught bits and pieces of his rants in many of the forum posts so I had a feeling what I'd be getting into if I so much as mentioned I liked the Dyson product.  To each their own I say.  I have nothing against Carmen, I don't know the man and can hardly make any kind of judgement based on what I read here.  He may feel differently about me but that's his thing. If nothing else, he's a good sparring partner even if he does repeat himself frequently :-)

Cheers,

Dusty

CarmineD wrote:

You really were not your own boss.  The public was your boss.  If you had been qualified (intelligent enough ) to work for a corporation you would know that all those jobs aren't cushy.  By owning your business your income was limited only to your ability to increase it.  I worked several years with no raise and actually worked harder those years.  You need to understand that corporate has difficult times the same as independents.  You had the same opportunity to invest as anyone with a 401K.

If you could not afford health insurance,  investments or an employee to fill in during your absences you are the dummy that I think you are.  You chose your occupation.

Why do you and others complain about imported goods.  After all everyone can become self employed if all corporations go abroad.  At least that is your thinking since you do not feel that corporations are necessary.

CarmineD wrote:
I was (still am) in the business thru the eighties and I can tell you that the business we ran then is nothing like what we run now.  At the time we ran with probably 90% rebuilt product and the rest in new...usually Eureka or Hoover.  The reason?  There was no money in new product.  Times have changed, our store is now mainly new product thanks to dealer exclusive lines that simply didn't exist way back when.  With this type of product we can now afford to bring in the low end machines we make $15 on because they are subsidised by our premium machines.  Used vacs, in a world of $59 Wal-Mart specials are pretty much a thing of the past.  You weren't in business at the wrong time, just a different time.

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

You can run your vacuum business and use professional certs any way you wish when you wish.  You can sell what you like at the prices you like to your customers.  You don't have to justify your reasons to anyone except yourself.   Nice thing about being your own boss. 

If you don't know the answer to your question to me, then you are not as smart as I thought you are.  And to be in business for yourself, you certainly have to be smart.  So I'm sure you know the answer.  Which is all that really matters, right?

Good Luck

Carmine D.

To HS et al:

What do you think of dyson USA selling the DC16 at $100 off with the purchase of any new dyson?  Surprised?  I opine that big box retailers, who carry the DC16, will do the same and maybe even offer the DC16 as a free giveaway.  Very soon.  They don't want to have them on the shelves unsold during the 2008 Holiday sales season.  Both full size and hand held dysons. 

I'm hearing rumblings that several big dyson retailers here in LV and their store chains around the country are looking to cull the dysons completely from their store shelves.  Why?  Not selling.  Just keep dysons for on-line sales until sold out.  Then, see what happens next with the economy.  Some of these stores have even stopped advertising the dyson vacuums.  Resorted to price mark downs on dysons in the stores to sell out.

You're a corporate guy HS [top/upper management?] with vast knowledge and experience.  Maybe you have the answer to this question that I posed earlier.  Why can't dyson increase the run time of its hand held vacuum in over 2 years above 5 minutes.  But dyson can work on a new green car that runs on batteries?  Sounds like a huge waste of time and money for the company and its 450 engineers and 12 designers.  Scattering their resources on an uncertain future product that may or may not pan out.   Based on their own 2 year plus track record on the DC16, dyson can't even improve their existing little simple hand held vacuum.  What's make it think it can build a battery operated car?

Carmine D.