Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

Hey Tom!

You might want to Email Mr Sumner and ask him why your neighbors 1280E(1694592) 12hp has the same 20G4140111-E1that your 1060E has. If yours is 10hp how can his be 12hp?

In poker I think they call that "call and raise"!  You might also want to inquire of him why Briggs doesen't list a 20G414 in their catalog of replacement engines in a 12HP model.

Marc

mml4 wrote:
I don't think the "more tension" explanation makes sense since that would mean that most of the time the belt is slipping. I don't know how it does it but my understanding is that the sysem changes the pulley ratio so that the auger /impeller have more torque when its under heavy load.

A Reeves pulley setup is where you have two variable diameter pulleys. As one pulley's diameter gets smaller the other one gets larger. This means that the belt tension stays constant but the ratio of the two pulley's diameters changes  and hence the speed and torque change. How the diameters change can either be automatic depending on the RPM the system is running at or it can be manually controlled. Normally you have one side of the pulley fixed and the other side is movable. As the movable side moves away from the fixed side the "V" shape of the sides causes the diameter that the belt is in contact with to decrease. As the sides move together the diameter increases. I remember reading about an automatic transmission for a car that was based on this system. An example of a manually controlled Reeves sytem is the Shopsmith, it has a dial that allows you to change the speed that the arbour is turning at. I've also seen it used in at least one wood turning turning lathe.

Hi Guys-

Nibbler-I can only tell you what the guy told me. He  described it as a split pulley system and a movement closer to the center of rotation causing more belt tension.

Would it not make sense that if the belt tension was static, at a particular load point it would slip but if there were a way to increase tension the slippage would stop?

Way out of my league here,

Marc 

This thread has made me reconsider the Simplicity Commercial line in terms of what you get for your money.  Assuming the 9560E thru 1280E all have the same engine this is what you are paying for:

 

Moving from 9560E to the 1060DLXE: (extra $200)

 

You get drift cutters, headlight, remote chute deflector, heavier frame and power boost.  Seems like money well spent.

 

Moving from the 1060DLXE to the 1170E (extra $100)

 

You get an extra four inches in width (24 to 28).  If time is an issue this seems okay.

 

Moving from the 1170E to the 1280E (extra $400)

 

Handwarmers and an extra four inches in width (28 to 32).  Seems high.  What is wrong with a good pair of gloves?

 

Looking at it this way I still would have bought the 1060DLXE.  I can also see a reason for someone to be happy with either the 9560E or the 1170E.  Looks like the 1280 owners may have a beef.

 

We haven’t heard from the Ariens and Toro users.  Is this the same issue with other brands?

TomP wrote:

Hi Tom maybe I got it wrong, but is it correct to say a consumer has to pay 700  more dollars for cutters, light, frame, boost, warmers, and 4 inches of width.  So if he would have bought the 9560  he would have been able to do the same job with his equipment.  with 1 or two more passes on the driveway.  The reason I ask is I noted a lot of people saying they don't care what the horsepower of the engine is as long as the dealer sells them one that is capable of doing the job.  The other naysayers say just buy bigger and don't worry about it.  So if they went to a Simp dealer they could do that and shell out 700 bucko's for 4 more inches of width. (sry I don't think drift cutters qualifies as buying bigger, you can add them to any machine for minimal cost )

Not sure if a diff comes into play here.  My point is, is it fraud.  A good answer to that is how many people would have bought the big one if they knew it had the same engine as the little one.  No not saying they would have bought the little one.  They may have settled somewhere in the middle.  The fact remains is they based their decision partly on the sticker of the engine   Plain and simple It is fraud and it is illegal..  Maybe there is some chance that the ope industry is not hoseing us. But I think this thread is past the point of them being innocent untill proven guilty. 

Ben07:

I certainly am not defending Simplicity.  It sure looks like the same engine is being used for the 4 models.

In my case I saw no difference between 9.5 and 10 hp engines and preferred the 1060 for the frame, drift breakers, light, adjustable deflector and power boost.  If the engines were identifical I still would have paid the differential.  My only point in the post is that although you may have been mislead by the specs you still may have purchased the same machine.  I am very happy with the performance.

I would also be interested in learning is this a Simplicity issue, Briggs issue or all manufacturers issue.  I don't believe we will hear anything other than the specs are accurate from Simplicity or Briggs here. 

Hey Guys,
Up to now, I have not really read this thread........I own an Ariens and so I did not think it really concerned me.
As the thread reached 100 posts,  it peaked my interest.    WOW!

It seems like I have reason more each day to turn cynical.

Marshall posted awhile back that with the Tec engines, my 13hp IS bigger and different than the other ones, so I guess I have no dog in this fight.

I would be angry if I bought a 12hp briggs unit thinking I was getting more HP then the less expensive 9hp.

Come lawnmower season....(a few more months yet here)...will this be an issue?

Anyway, I'm happy with my 13hp Ariens....it does the job, and it looks like the specs are bigger then the smaller engines Ariens puts on the snowblowers.  I'd be screaming if that were not the case.

It would be interesting to put a 12hp and a 9hp of the units in question side to side to really see if there is a difference, but from what you guys have found out, there IS no difference.
If that is true, I have no respect for these companies or the dealers who are pushing the bigger blowers because of the HP, and I'd really be mad if I bought a biggest blower just for the power alone.

Actually, that's what I did do, but it looks like in the case of Ariens, you really do get what you are paying for......a 13hp engine that is bigger then the smaller ones. I'm glad I bought the model I bought.

Frank D.

mml4 wrote:
The light may have dawned on this one. Here's my GUESS.

Maybe its a Reeves setup with a stiff threshold. When the unit is under heavy load the pulleys change from the "normal" ratio to the "heavy load" ratio with practically no intermediate ratios.

I think we need to get Paula and Dave in Wisconsin to drive to Briggs in Milwaukee and see what's up. If they don't come forth, go get a news crew.

I have a feeling Paula would get them to talk. 

TomP I understand your decision, no problem there, I think I would have done the same thing. That's why I said consumers make their purchase partly on the advertized horsepower of the engine.  I just didn't want  you to think I in any way implying you on my next post.  By the way you have been a great help in this thread so thanks for that also. 

Ben07