Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Marc   Fantastic research there.  Sorry about the headache.  But you got hard copy and verbal proof that the machines are being badged falsly.  I am sure as you know that has been coming up in many threads, by a few people.  I t has been met with. Can't be happening as there is a specific regulated test., Mechanically impossable,  don't really care as long as it runs and does the job,  just buy more and don't worry about it. 

Fact is they are doing it and it is a highly fraudulent process.  It should not be allowed to be happening.  It is also the give them an inch and what is to stop them from going further. 

To answer some of the above, it can be done despite the test,  use a general disclaimer,  It definately is mechanically possable,

don't really care as long as it does the job,  I really don't mind that one because that is personal preference.  If you want to turn a blind eye and rely on reputation and other peoples experiences, that is fine as there are a lot of things keeping everyone busy and impossable to look at everything under a microscope,   but the problem is the other reputations, and experiences are going to find and have a problem with the situation sooner or later.  The just buy more and don't worry about it, is the real riot here, don't get me wrong it is a decent strategy if things are on the up and up.( but the fact is when you are noticing things to be falsly advertized  you can now try to buy more and not get it,  same as throwing your money in the garbach can.  What really puts the icing on the cake is in this case the truth is when you  buy less is when you  actually get more.  

This is a definate riot...  now I got a headache as i'm, lmaorof

Ben07 

Hi Ben,

Marshall,

I thought the Simplicity Representative over the phone that Marc spoke with made the above statement to him.  Actually the 13 HP was not included in the statement, my mistake.  But it did refer to the 9,10,11, and 12 HP models actually being the same engine just re-labeled

If Briggs/ Simplicity is using the same engine size, just relabeled, do you think Tecumseh is doing the same?

Tec's 8 to 11Hp all have same displacement, just as you mentioned on the Briggs.

I think, maybe  they are just changing cams and carbs to make the difference in engine HP.

                                                                        Fred  

One of the things I have learned from my research into the engines is how to decode the spec #. I assume if the spec # is the same then the engine is the same. I went to the simplicity dealer this am and looked at the two large frame units he had on the floor. One was the 9.5hp 960E and the other was the 10hp 1060E. Both engines had the EXACT same spec #20G414011E1. I did not have the opportunity to see the 11hp or the 12hp as they were not in stock but for these two units the info from the Simplicity tech guy checks out.Same engine!!!

Marc

That was great you were actually able to check the spec numbers.  That number is everything and says it all.  It's also pretty amazing and settles any doubt.   

P.S. "I did not have the opportunity to see the 11hp or the 12hp as they were not in stock"

Just goes to show you why they were out of stock.  The consumer is lead to believe they have to have a very high horse power snowblower and go for the one marked 11 or 12 HP.  I know Simplicity snowblowers are not cheap to buy.  I'd hate to see how much extra those people paid when they could have gotten basically the same thing for hundreds less.  The OPE industry has no shame

 Richie,

If Briggs/ Simplicity is using the same engine size, just relabeled, do you think Tecumseh is doing the same?

Tec's 8 to 11Hp all have same displacement, just as you mentioned on the Briggs.

Jubol just a added thing here and to give you a Tec field test input, some of this all started for me in an extreme situation,  I was driving home and I knew my son was in the process of helping a neighbor who had been out of town for weeks.  he has a drive double wide that can hold anywhere between 16 and 20 full size cars.  In feet I can tell you I was close to 1/4 mile away, min 900 feet as I know the lot sizes, and how many houses away I was. It was asight, not only high, but a ton of volume, It stood out in between trees and highet than a lot of them.   This guy had like 14 inches and the bottom third was older and packed, like iced and heavy.  All I could see was this supposidly 8.5 hp Tec blowin the snow completely over his lower roof as it is a split level .. from where the SBwas was2 stories  garage level then living room level then another 10 feet of roof level  and 16 foot back from the gutter line and he was workin 15 to 20 feet back from the building.  I figured either something broke and it was runnin wide open or he was using someone elses monster machine, so I drove up .  The owner was on the porch with a worried look on his face, as the youngin was still on the learning curv and when he got on the side he hit up on the peak of the eves and the people inside thought he blew the roof off.  So standing beside him I did the Dad thing and said in a voice low enough so the owner couldn't hear me " What the h--- are you doing"  He just made a mistake, and said he is now under controll, and he was able to stay away from hiting the transformer out on the pole,  I turned and looked and saw it was 40 feet off the ground. And he had to try an avoid it or he would have hosed it down so to speak.There are snowblowers that will throw that high,  as you can see in the snowblowers in action thread.  But trust me not a natural 8hp. especially when it is in 4th gear against that much snow.  I know 10's and I know 8's and I know 5's in this type machine.  This thing was blowing at the strength of at least a 10 or 11 hp machine minimum.  This teen has run a lot of SB  and had I know it was going to be that wicked I woul have went up there with him as it is obvious these things can happen to someone learning a new machine.  He had used it before enough,  but  smaller amounts of snow.  The thing thru rather high then,  but nothing like it did with a full corse dinner.

I also did call the manufacturer when I first bought it, to ask why is this an 8.5 when all the other companies badge them as 8's etc.  They said it is a Tech engine built to their specs.  Didn't know what they were yada yada, closed door,  So I called Tec, They never heard of one of their engines being 8.5 They said call the Blower manufacturer back.

Ben07

We tend to look (myself included) at the engine being the most important issue in OPE. I believe Marshall was trying to make that point in a post yesterday. I am fast coming to the realization that the engine is not of primary concern to the OPE manufacturer.They are far more interested in the frame and those components than the engine.

The two units I looked at this morning had the same engine and were seperated in price by $200 on the msrp. For the difference in money you got:

1)drift cutters

2)Headlight

3)remote chute deflector

4)Power Boost

5)A completely different chasis from the deck up to the dash board-The 1060E has a welded assembly to support the handlebars as opposed to the tubular handle bars we are used to.

We could argue whether the difference is worth $200(I think it is) but the machines are definitely not the same.

Marc