Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

sawman wrote:

I believe I have been fair and balanced in this thread but I must take issue with the above statement. Simplicity and all of the OPE manufacturers order specfic engines for their equiptment. They are fully aware  that they are using the EXACT same engine badged differently on VARIOUS models at different prices.

If one were to  take the time to read all of my posts in this thread you will see that the technician at Simplicity explained quite clearly in our phone conversation that the reason for using the same engine was to keep the cost of production reasonable.

If you doubt what has been reported the # for Simplicity is (262)284-8667.To their credit they do take phone calls and the technicians have proven to be forthright and honest.

Marc

Hi there Pat,

I originally thought that same thing about not blaming the OPE manufacturer for these engine discrepancies.  What made me rethink that assumption was when I contacted Tecumseh a few weeks back and gave them the model number of my engine.  This Tecumseh Rep said, yes, your engine is a 9 HP.  As I continued with my conversation and asked why is my snowblower sold as an 8 HP model, he continued and said, "well, the manufacturer that ultimately sells the equipment can rate them or derate them for their needs or something along those lines.  So it also has to do with the marketing policies of each company just to name one thing. 

I find myself wishing that OPE was sold similar to how a dirt bikes and motorcycles are sold which is by the CC's of the engine.   Although power differences are evident as the CC's are increased, those numbers are still fudged as well.  I remember my Suzuki GSX-R1100 which was supposed to be 1,100cc's was actually something like 1,028cc's and my Honda XR-75 was only 72cc's.  Any way you look at it, the industry needs to get away from this HP rating because the way the HP rating process works, it means nothing.  It's the industry as a whole and why I don't like referring to any one specific brand name.  The system needs to be fixed big time.

Marc, so the Simplicity Tech's are telling you that the engines are exactly the same, producing the same horsepower and torque with absolutely no difference between them except the HP label?

Hi guys!

Marshall--In as clear a voice as I can muster and in the shortest discourse I am capable of-YES!!

Check my first post in this thread which I started. The quotation marks in my description of my discussion with the tech are there for a reason. I like to think I am not given to exageration when reporting such conversations. As I said before I spent a lot of time on this and  would not have posted this info if I wasn't convinced. It is a rather large portion of crow I would have to consume if proven wrong. In addition we should remember that Miss Snowshoveler reported the same thing when checking the two Snapper units of different HP badges  when she checked her stock.

Snapper and Simplicity as you know are now sister companys both owned by Briggs.In closing may I add that NOBODY has posted any info that disputes what I have  posted concerning the spec #s or what they mean.

Marc

PS This ,sadly, is as short a discourse as I am capable of!

Marc, I didn't mean to get you testy by asking, I asked that way for a reason.

When I read the statement in quotes from the Sims rep.........

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

.......I read where he says the engines are the same. What I don't see is where he says they produce the same HP and torque and are no different in any way.

I was wondering if he was using the term "engine" as meaning the same block or, whatever. Like if I spoke with a service rep at a GM dealer and he said the Roadmaster uses the Corvette engine. He would be right, it does but, that's not the whole story.

Anyhow, that's why I asked, wasn't questioning your post, just looking for clarity.

Marshall -

Not testy at all!! Believe me !!! I am not at all angry and in no way mind being questioned.

The tech clearly stated that they were exactly the same engine except for badging.

For me this has been a wonderfull LEARNING experience. I now know to look at OPE the way the manufacturers do. The power is just an outsourced part to them.They don't even warranty it. No emotional involvement in the engine dept. as far as they are concerned. You could really tell that during the conversation. When I asked about the Power Boost which is a pulley and spring system unique to Simplicity the guy became totally enthusiastic! Talk about engines he could care less.

Marc 

This certainly has the title of the longest thread on Abby's.

I'm certainly still trying to find out more info.  Not getting many answers - but what do I expect sometimes???

And yes Marshall, it is a very longgggggggggggg thread - but well worth it.  I had the boss read it when it was in it's 60's and it took him forever.  Now that's it's longer - he'll have to take my word for it.

Sherri

Unfortunately I am getting no where with this.  Here is my response from Simplicity:

The horse power of the 1060E snowthrower is 10 HP.  The torque curve is
available from Briggs & Stratton.  They can be contacted at
800-274-4485.
The Model of the engine in the 1060E (1694590) is 20G414  0111-E1.
Thank you for your interest.
T. C. Sumner, Sr.
Service Department

Marc,
When you say spring and pulley system. If I remember it transfers "power" to the auger/impeller in heavy snow. I'm guessing it slows the units forward speed. So it has Reeves pulleys, like an MTD tractor with a Transamatic transmission?