Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

    I recently bought a Snapper 924 which has a 9hp B&S model # 20C414.  I asked the B&S email account if the 20C414 is an aluminum alloy (as the 20A412 is or cast iron as the 20D414 is).  I received an email from B&S saying the 9 hp engine I mentioned is in fact cast iron for sleeve and that it is special order for Snapper.   Engines in Snapper manual all have same displacement.  B&S lists all  as having same max rpm.  so it has me wondering how do they get the extra horsepower.  Mine does say 9 hp on label on engine, so I assume it is.  Torque varies slightly from one to another- 13- 14 lbs of torque at about 2500 rpm.  I asked if I should replace the regular oil with synthetic oil before the 2 hr break in-B&S email reply did not seem to be pushing synthetic- said I would do it after 8 hr break in.  I told them I would use Mobil # 1 if they thought it was OK.  They said that is fine.

     That series of  B&S OHV 9-12 hp is their premium engine- main difference  seemed to be the premium parts and looks like cast iron sleeves.

     You can get Champion platinum replacement plugs for the RC12YC  which is the spark plug for the B&S at least the 9 hp.

It is not easy to get all the info in a straight forward manner from the web sites.

hidato

Hi Hidato-

Take a very close look at the number on your engine. I think you may find that the C is a G. Snow Shoveler  and Miss Snowshoveler who are Snapper dealers confirmed in an earlier post  that the engine in the 9hp Snapper is the 20G414011E1.

See reply #42 in this thread.

If you call Snapper I think you will find out the same information.The first time I looked at my engine I mis- read the G as a C.I spent a lot of time on the phone with Briggs but found their knowledge of which engine the manufacturer uses to be lacking. If you call Simplicity/Snapper you will get more exact info.

Welcome to the forum,

Marc

sawman wrote:

Pat:

I hate to let this mystery go unsolved.  Simplicity refuses to respond to my email request regarding my engine and the differences in the Briggs site regarding hp ratings. 

Has your tech contact made any progress?

Hi Tom-

Call Simplicity at (262)284-8669. Go to the service option which I think is 2. Eventually  you will be able to speak with a tech.

Marc

TomP wrote:

Sorry, I have not bben on in last few days. No I have not heard anything from our tech guy, but will do a follow up. But please lets remember that Simplicity only buys the engines they do not make them.

sawman wrote:

I believe I have been fair and balanced in this thread but I must take issue with the above statement. Simplicity and all of the OPE manufacturers order specfic engines for their equiptment. They are fully aware  that they are using the EXACT same engine badged differently on VARIOUS models at different prices.

If one were to  take the time to read all of my posts in this thread you will see that the technician at Simplicity explained quite clearly in our phone conversation that the reason for using the same engine was to keep the cost of production reasonable.

If you doubt what has been reported the # for Simplicity is (262)284-8667.To their credit they do take phone calls and the technicians have proven to be forthright and honest.

Marc

Hi there Pat,

I originally thought that same thing about not blaming the OPE manufacturer for these engine discrepancies.  What made me rethink that assumption was when I contacted Tecumseh a few weeks back and gave them the model number of my engine.  This Tecumseh Rep said, yes, your engine is a 9 HP.  As I continued with my conversation and asked why is my snowblower sold as an 8 HP model, he continued and said, "well, the manufacturer that ultimately sells the equipment can rate them or derate them for their needs or something along those lines.  So it also has to do with the marketing policies of each company just to name one thing. 

I find myself wishing that OPE was sold similar to how a dirt bikes and motorcycles are sold which is by the CC's of the engine.   Although power differences are evident as the CC's are increased, those numbers are still fudged as well.  I remember my Suzuki GSX-R1100 which was supposed to be 1,100cc's was actually something like 1,028cc's and my Honda XR-75 was only 72cc's.  Any way you look at it, the industry needs to get away from this HP rating because the way the HP rating process works, it means nothing.  It's the industry as a whole and why I don't like referring to any one specific brand name.  The system needs to be fixed big time.

Marc, so the Simplicity Tech's are telling you that the engines are exactly the same, producing the same horsepower and torque with absolutely no difference between them except the HP label?

Hi guys!

Marshall--In as clear a voice as I can muster and in the shortest discourse I am capable of-YES!!

Check my first post in this thread which I started. The quotation marks in my description of my discussion with the tech are there for a reason. I like to think I am not given to exageration when reporting such conversations. As I said before I spent a lot of time on this and  would not have posted this info if I wasn't convinced. It is a rather large portion of crow I would have to consume if proven wrong. In addition we should remember that Miss Snowshoveler reported the same thing when checking the two Snapper units of different HP badges  when she checked her stock.

Snapper and Simplicity as you know are now sister companys both owned by Briggs.In closing may I add that NOBODY has posted any info that disputes what I have  posted concerning the spec #s or what they mean.

Marc

PS This ,sadly, is as short a discourse as I am capable of!