Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Conversation with Simplicity
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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mml4
 
Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544
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Conversation with Simplicity
Original Message Feb 21, 2005 3:59 pm |
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Hi guys, Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman. 1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine." When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different. 2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests." 3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me. 4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils. I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors . I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. I have a headache, Marc
This message was modified Mar 2, 2005 by mml4
SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
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Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
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Re: Conversation with Simplicity
Reply #61 Feb 24, 2005 9:33 am |
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Hi there Ben, Good point you make but when it comes to racing, that can't happen. When you join a racing club, you can't just show up to the track with any engine of your choice, unless it's during practice. They usually start with a Briggs & Stratton class, say, a stock class, modified stock, open class and such. They have a 2-stroke class as well. The rules a racer must comply with in the first class mentioned is that you have to start with a Briggs 5 HP engine with an aluminum bore. Typically, the carburetor is modified to run methanol and blueprinted and flow rates optimized. Governors are completely removed and the stock exhaust is replaced with a header of varying lengths, say, 8"-14" long. Whatever class you race in, since the rules mandate the limit of modifications in a particular class, if someone suddenly stood very far out ahead of the rest, you can bet the officials will corral you into the tech area and you'll have to break the engine down in front of them. They don't play games, believe me. They did it to me in the 2-stroke class. I had a Yamaha 100cc engine, when the rest had 135's, and I still managed to come in 3rd place in one of my first races. Since I was so new, they felt I could not have possibly done as well as I did, I must have been cheating. It was later determined that I simply out drove the other 7 racers behind me, and most were veteran racers, which didn't make them happy. They became my friend real fast when they realized I was also the only racer to have a real radar gun to aid in fine tuning gear changes and such It doesn't matter that it's only Kart racing. They are a very serious bunch and don't play games when points stand in the balance.
Richie
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nibbler
Joined: Mar 5, 2004
Points: 751
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Re: Conversation with Simplicity
Reply #62 Feb 24, 2005 10:00 am |
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The Tecumseh l-heads used a different thickness of head gasket to make their hp. The thinner it is the higher the hp. I'm just grasping at straws. I know there has to be some difference somewhere, looking at the IPL's for the Snapper machines, there are only a few parts different. The gear boxes are the same - so they're not picking up hp there. I'm still trying to fight my way through a group of men on the other end of the phone that think an air head just called them to find out some info. Now that the Technicians got me PO'd I'm going to keep digging. Sherri I don't think you can "pick up" HP in a gear box unless your referring to losses due to friction. A gear box doesn't change the amount of energy per time ( HP, KWH, joules per second, whatever) it changes the speed and the torque. One goes up the other goes down. What are the main things that affect HP? 1. displacement 2. compression 3. fuel Anything else? BTW here's the expalnation of the B&S numbering scheme. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=65324
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jubol
Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558
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Re: Conversation with Simplicity
Reply #64 Feb 24, 2005 10:29 am |
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 Marshall, Make that "Density" of air. Colder air is more dense than warm. Atmospheric pressure and altitude affect HP. At 18,000 feet above sea level, pressure is 1/2 of what it is at sea level. Therefor an engine ,8HP at sea level only produces 4 HP at 18,000 feet of altitude. That is why recip engines need superchargers for high altitude flying. Fred 
This message was modified Feb 24, 2005 by jubol
Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower, MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP Self Prop Lawn Mower, Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis 2000
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Marshall
As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )
Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730
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Re: Conversation with Simplicity
Reply #66 Feb 24, 2005 10:50 am |
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Marshall, Make that "Density" of air. Colder air is more dense than warm. Atmospheric pressure and altitude affect HP. At 18,000 feet above sea level, pressure is 1/2 of what it is at sea level. Therefor an engine ,8HP at sea level only produces 4 HP at 18,000 feet of altitude. That is why recip engines need superchargers for high altitude flying. Fred Correct Fred but, air still produces HP, just that denser air helps produce more HP. Is denser a word?
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Ben07
The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178
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Re: Conversation with Simplicity
Reply #67 Feb 24, 2005 1:23 pm |
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What are the main things that affect HP?
1. displacement
2. compression
3. fuel
Anything else?
BTW here's the expalnation of the B&S numbering scheme. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=65324 Hi Nibbler .. There are a lot of things that can affect HP as you know. But one aspect I want to add to the pot of stew just to caution, as trying to figure it out if there is small differences like the thickness of a head gasket (assuming that it is not a lot ) It may not change the peak aspect of the HP drastic enough on a 1 cyl small engine. I will give you a litleblurb on that in a second, cause that is my secondary point. But it can very well alter the torque and or HP curve somewhere in the graph . Example just to make it relative. The gasket may take a 9 to a say 9.1 at 4000 rpm however the application to the whole engine may make it peak 300 rpm sooner etc. So maybe amost same HP at peak but developed at diff speeds. So the question is can they change an 8 HP to a 9HP with the head gasket thickness. The way they seem to be allowed to use the test ratings, as in sometimes within operating range of the machine and sometimes over and above the operating range of the machine however within the limits of the operating range of the engine, then they definately can change horsepower on paper. gpCan the head gasket give it 13% more hp on a 1 cyl engine. There would have to be a big differ in thickness after the installation crush. A lot of people are use to like auto's going (pre- Emission) from a 9 to 1 up to a 12 to 1 ratio and gaining an overall 10 percent hp. like asy 30 hp gain in a v8. But when you shave the heads on a v* you are shaving 8 cylinders .not just one so the figure sounds a bit higher. So you can still investigate it, but it could turn out that there are so many overlapping factors, you might drive yourself crazy. Didn't mean to get complicated just trying to help Ben07
This message was modified Feb 25, 2005 by Ben07
Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps
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