Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi guys,

Called Briggs with the spec # on the Simplicity I am looking at . The guy was very nice!! Called me back and spent a lot of time  but couldn't find the exact # I gave him. He said he was 90% sure the spec# I gave him  is an aluminum bore engine. What he was able to give me was the Phone # for Simplicity which I couldn't get on Friday. For you Simplicity fans the #is (262)284-8669.Hit 2 on your phone after you get through to get to the tech dept. Real interesting conversation with that gentleman.

1)All the engines in the large frame line are the same except for the 13hp unit."If you buy the the 9560E,1060DLXE,1170Eor 1280E you get the same engine."

When I asked him why he said it's more cost effective to power everything with the 12hp engine than to buy different engines for each model. He was very specific about saying the engine is the 12. The stickers are different.

2)" All the engines are aluminum bore models because they are the same engine" Simplicity chose to go with aluminum bore because they run cooler and in an environment absent of dust and dirt the cast iron isn't necessary.Today"s Aluminum alloys wear very well under winter conditions according to their tests."

3)"I should consider using the Briggs synthetic oil because it doubles  the life of the warranty. There is a chemical dye in the oil that colors the internal parts of the engine. If you have a failure they check for the color and you get a replacement." Sounds like a good deal to me.

4)He suggested using Simplicity part #1704636 to lubricate the gearbox. Infomed me that it is really a Snapper lubricant and that when Simplicity bought Snapper they found it worked very well. Said it doesen't thicken in the cold as much as other gear oils.

I pressed him a little on the aluminum bore issue reminding him that Simplicity used cast iron bore Tecumsehs before Briggs bought the company. He said that the purchase by Briggs had nothing to do with it.Simplicity started using Briggs three years ago when the Snow Intek first came out. He reminded me this was before Simplicity was bought by Briggs.When I asked him why the change he said there were too many issues with the Tecumseh carburetors .

 I went to the Briggs web site and spent some time looking at their replacement engine spec. book. Sure enough there are 9,10 and 11 hp. engines of the same displacement. To further confuse/enlighten me they listed engines of the same horse power that have different displacements.And to further confuse the issue Briggs does not list a 12 hp engine. 

I have a headache,

Marc

Ben07 wrote:

Ben,

Exactly correct.  Just like my Toro comes with an 8 HP Tecumseh, which is a HP rating designated by Toro and NOT by Tecumseh.  Also why it always seemed to come up as a 9 HP. Good point and I'm glad you mentioned it.

mml4 wrote:

Marc,

Indeed, it appears that I too have a 12HP Briggs Engine on my Simplicity. The Model is 20G414 and Type is 0111E1.

It sounds like people who bought the 9,10 and 11 HP Simplicitys with the Briggs Intek engine recieved a free upgrade!!!

Knowing this, it might be worthwhile for one to pay a couple of more bucks  for the Simplicity as compared to the Ariens being you're getting a top of the line 12HP engine instead if a 8,9,10 or 11 HP Tecumseh !!!

Before I bought, I also compared the weights of the Snowblowers and it seemed there was a decent jump in weight between the 10 and 11 that you did not see between the 11 and 12. Could it be slightly heavier components? 

My brochure from 2004 says  the 1170E (270) is 25lbs heavier than the 1060E (245). The 1280E (275) is only 5lbs heavier than the 1170E (270). 

Either way...I'm still very happy with my Simplicity ...used it Monday morning and worked great.

                                                                                           Dan

 Dan,

 I think Tecumseh is doing the same thing,

8-11 HP engines all same displacemrnt, same weight, ETC!!

                                                                  Fred   

Hi Dan !

You are the man!

Thats the confirmation of the info from the Simplicity Tech guy.

Thanks ,

Marc

Dan ,I think the difference in the weight of the machines is the difference in the auger width and larger auger bucket.

These are the weights listed in my 2004 Simplicity catalog#040252,

9560E-230lb

1060DLXE-240lb

1170E-255lb

1280EE-265lb

I wonder what accounts for the difference in weights listed in your catalog and mine. I'll bet our catalogs are from different years. I just noticed the weights are listed as approximate.

Marc

Marc,

I noticed this fall that Simplicity had lowered the weights on their snowblowers and your weights appear to be curent. 

My brochure is from August 2003 not 2004 as I had previously stated (sorry)

Perhaps the weights from 2003 are not accurate???

                                                                                                                    Dan

okay i had trouble beleiving this so i checked our in stock snapper snowblowers.

9 horse 10 horse ..exact same model and type numbers ...and now you say the 11 and 12 are the sameas the 9 and 10.

so are they all 12 horsepower.

the chassis on our snappers are all the same and the gear boxes are the same ,so the only difference from the 9 to the 11 is the width of the bucket.wow ,no wonder they work well.they certainly dont lack for power.

this justs keeps getting better all the time.

and briggs and tecumseh school is getting closer all the time,and i have some questions for the instructors-technical help.

later chris

jubol wrote:

Jubol I hope what you are chicking into is close to correct, as this was my description of my 8.5 before you made that post

"I know 10's and I know 8's and I know 5's in this type machine.  This thing was blowing at the strength of at least a 10 or 11 hp machine minimum." 

The reason being, I think I was very accurate with my observation,  but I am sure there are a few who if they don't follow it close will yea  "Yeah Right" 

Thxfor your help as I am unable to do research at this time

Ben07

P s If I find out it is an 11 I will softly freak.  I won't be too loud cause my kid will find out and steal it for a go-cart

snowshoveler wrote:
Two years ago I wanted to purchase a Simplicity.  The price of $1,400.00 I recall is what it cost.  I felt it was just too much money for an 8 or 9 HP machine.  Assuming this was going on back then, and given the fact these OPE manufacurers have been messing around for so long, and I have no reason to think otherwise, it answers the question why the price was so high.  This situation puts you on the other side of the street; you think you are getting say, a 9HP engine, but are really getting perhaps a 12 HP.  Bottom line is that nothing is free and one way or another you are paying a great deal of money for it.  Price a 12 HP Briggs engine with previsions for a lighting alternator and 110 volt electric start and you'll see what I mean.   It was still tough for me to walk away from the machine.  Once you grab the handle bars of a Simplicity, it just screams "tank"

I am out of my league here but offer this as a potential explanation.

The Snow Commander R-tek is rated at 7 hp while the 3650 is rated at 6.5 hp.  The difference according to Toro is due to the piston (two additional ports) and cylinder.

My Simplicity 1060 has the 20G414 engine.  Looking at the parts catalog there appears to be 4 piston sizes (standard, .01" oversize, .02" oversize and .03" oversize.)  Could this explain the difference in horsepower generated using the same engine displacement?

Hi Guys!

Tom-The question is do engines with the EXACT same spec # have different pistons? All of the Simplicity units between 9.5hp and 11hp we have verified as having the exact same spec#. The only one we have not eyeballed by one of our group is the 12 hp model.

At this point I am willing to take the word of the Simplicity Tech I spoke to over the phone who said they are all the same.

Chris- Is the type designation in the Snapper a "G" (aluminum bore) or a"D" (cast iron bore)?

I know I have tormented you guys with this stuff over the last few weeks and I promise I will not go off on another investigative crusade.But it became obvious to me today after looking at the Snapper web site that the Snappers are built out of the same parts bin as the Simplicity. The difference is the Snappers use the round stock handles throughout their large frame line as compared to Simplicitys' use of their signature "angle" bars on the 10, 11,12 and 13 hp models. Snapper doesen't offer the remote chute deflector and badges the engines with less hp for each auger width ex. 24" Snapper is 9hp,24"Simplicity is either 9.5 or 10 hp depending on which one of their 24" models you choose. We already know that the 9.5 and the 10 carry the same spec#. 28"Snapper is 10hp.,Simplicity 28" is 11hp.32" Snapper uses 11hp while the 32" Simplicity uses a 12hp.  The Snapper also uses the  12hp. on the 38" model where as Simplicity uses the 13hp on their 38". This is curious as it appears the 12hp is the same as the 9,10 and 11 while the 13hp is a larger displacement. The Snappers are at a  lower price point than the Simplicity and therefore if what we have found out is true are a terrific value.

Anxiously awaiting Chris'report on the Snapper type#

Marc