Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hey, I have had my 826oxe for almost three years and for the first time the two shear pins that bolt the impeller onto the shaft that leads into the auger gearcase broke. I never had any on hand because I was told/it is advertised there is no need for shear pins in these machines. And I couldn't get new ones when this happened because everything was shut down due to the storm. So I had to shovel! When the shop did open the next day they said it was common for this to happen, especially due to the high stress on the machine because the type of snow it was clearing(wet/heavy/hard packed and about 3 feet high). The guy said also that the shear pins in the auger do break on occasion. So I picked up a bunch of extra shear pins for the impeller and auger. I wish they had told me this when I bought the machine so I would have had them on hand for when they were eventually needed. Any other toro owners have this happen? If you haven't, and you don't have any extras in your toolbox I advise you to go buy some!

Always keep a few spare shear pins!  I have never broken one yet, BUT...you know when it happens that it will be in the middle of a blowing session and that'a when you need it and may not be able to get out and get it.

Yup. It's just that for me when I bought it the salesman was pushing hard on the pitch that I wouldn't ever have to replace shear pins in this particular model.
Toros website states:
The Heavy-Duty Auger Gearbox has special oversized hardened gears and shafts designed to withstand extreme stress, virtually eliminating the need for shear pins.

With the salesman pushing it hard and toro's website stating that, I never gave it a second thought. They should be advising their salesman to relay the message that that isn't quite true and to toss in some shear pins to avoid their consumers having an epic freakout in the middle of a snowstorm! LOL

Rule #1: Don't believe the salesman - do your own homework.

Rule #2: Anything that can break will do so under extreme stress/unusal circumstances.

Rule #3: Always be prepared for the inevitable (as much as possible).  Whatever can happen, will happen, usually at the worst possible time!

Rule #4: Don't forget Rules 1, 2 or 3.

I'll bet your machine ingested a rock or someting similar for a shear pin to break. Heavy, wet, hardpacked snow would not typically cause this type of failure.

FrankMA wrote:
How do you know a salesman is lying? 

"His lips are moving."  

Hehehe.  Couldn't resist.  I'm sure there are good honest salesman out there, just as there are compassionate and honest ambulance chasers. 

FrankMA wrote:
That's the thing, I did do my homework. Toro's own website says there is no need for shear pins. Just do a google search for  "toro power max shear pins", on the first page of results you will see several statements backing up what the website and salesman said:
- virtually eliminating the need for shear pins
-No shear pins needed so none to replace. Power is transferred to the serrated augers by a gearcase designed to withstand extreme stress, eliminating the need for troublesome shear pins. I have had readers tell me they have run 2 inch rocks through their Toro and didn’t break a thing!
- This heavy-duty gearcase operates without shear pins because it is rugged enough to actually withstand stalling out the motor if it encounters serious yard debris.

Why is that info so common out there? It's ALL BS!!

" I have had readers tell me they have run 2 inch rocks through their Toro and didn’t break a thing!"

There's a big difference between passing a 2" rock and having the same rock jamb the auger.  If a rock anything else stops the auger or impeller from turning, something has to give. 

So, the choice is yours.  A two bit shear pin or $250.00 or more in repairs.

borat wrote:


That's an easy choice, but that is besides the point. The point is, why does is state from several different sources(from the manufacturer, to the dealer, to other third party sources) that there is no shear pins when that is obviously incorrect?

I have zero issues with the fact that shear pins busted, just that I was told that it didn't need them so I never had any on hand which caused major inconvenience in the middle of a huge storm. I can, however say the shear pins will rarely break in the toro because last year my dogs 20' chain got completely entangled in the auger and it kept going(obviously struggling) without anything breaking..

giocam wrote:
The point is, why does is state from several different sources(from the manufacturer, to the dealer, to other third party sources) that there is no shear pins when that is obviously incorrect?

Well it may be a matter of schematics but the bolts that Toro uses are just grade 5 bolts not shear bolts!! The bolts for the impeller are grade 5 tap bolts (a tap bolt is a bolt that is threaded the full length of the bolt). The bolt for the auger should be long enough so that there are no threads in the auger shaft the spacer is so that the bolt can be tightened. This differs from most other manufactures who use shear bolts most often designed with a turned down spot so that the bolt will break in that spot & break easier.

"The point is, why does is state from several different sources(from the manufacturer, to the dealer, to other third party sources) that there is no shear pins when that is obviously incorrect?"

Quite possible that Toro is appealing to the "know nothing - do nothing" generation of people who want a device to make a specific task easier without any committment to maintenance, nor the need to understand how/why things work. 

Our nations are dumbing down in a big way.  Any opportunity that a manufacture can see to capitalize on mental and physical laziness will become a part of their sales philosophy.  Consumers can be their own worst enemy. 

When I was shopping for a Toro 2 stage snowblower, I was under the impression that the shear bolts do not shear easily.  It is there for catastropic event to protect the engine.  For the most part, the load from the auger obstruction was supposed to stall the engine, preventing further damage.  I can't remember if that was a salesman or Toro's stance on how it functions.

I'm not sure why Toro takes that approach.   It is plausible even though I'm not comfortable with that idea.  Their auger, impeller and gearbox aren't built any more tougher than an Ariens or Honda.  Perhaps there's more to Toro's design than I can see.

In any case, if the shear bolts breaks and protects from further damage to the machine, that's what really matter.  If there's a high occurance of broken shear bolts with normal use, then I would see that as a problem and design flaw.

I didn't buy a Toro, but got a Honda.  Toro is nice, I like their ergonomics, but they don't have hydrostatic drive or tracks.  Toro's 2 stage are generally high priced compared to Ariens.  The first year of using my Honda, I was breaking shear bolts frequently.  A couple of these times were due to hitting something solid, a few of them were due to overtightening of the shear bolts.  These would cause the bolts to shear prematurely at a lower load.  I'm not sure if Toro has anything stated in the manual on how the bolts should be torqued down, that's where I would start to look at.

ajallen wrote:

ajallen wrote:
Nope, the bolts on the impeller are only threaded on the exposed end for the nut to screw onto. The part of the bolt that is inside the shaft has no thread.
The toro part # is 321-11 for the bolt and 3296-42 for the nut.

Should be 321-44

The bolt can be seen in this link(third one down):
http://www.repairclinic.com/Toro-Snowblower-Shear-Pin-Parts

borat wrote:
This is multi-faceted.  Consumers aren't the only ones to blame.  Designs are often influenced by ease of manufacturabililty, lower costs, mistake proofing, reducing risks and liability.   Heck, Walmart and Costco drives the costs down even further.  Consumers are too used to gimme gimme the best at the lowest prices.  Plus, they don't want to take care of it since they can get a newer and better one a few years down the road.

The current generation are bombarded with too much information to really spend time to be good at anything.  The days of learning with your Dad are now replaced with carting kids around to soccer and football practice.  Kids are now entertained with Ipads and cell phones.  If they ever need to know anything, just open up Youtube.  It's rare to see kids do household chores, mowing lawn, shoveling snow.  Heck, even parents are too busy to do that themselves.  They outsource them so they can have more time toting kids around soccer practice.

I wouldn't say manufacturers capitalize on consumers mental and physical laziness.  It's a loosing battle, make it cheaper and better to stay in business.  The sad part is price pressure drives manufacturing to outside of the consuming market.  I don't see how a consuming mass doesn't produce what they consume?  They need to produce something to consume. 

ajallen wrote:
That is not the ones they sold me, if they did use that in the past they must use a new part number for it now. Plus, what need would there be for the part of the bolt that goes inside the shaft to be threaded? Serves no purpose as you don't thread it into the shaft, you just push it through and screw the nut down on the other end.
The bolts they sold me fit and work perfect and look exactly like the ones listed in the parts manual for the 1128oxe, 1028oxe and 926oxe currently on toro's website(the 826oxe isn't on there any more).

giocam wrote:

 

It makes sense when you understand that the Toro engineers wanted a slightly weaker bolt for this application so that it would break easier if it “say” had to eat a dog chain.

If you look for a sticker on the back of your machine you will find your real model & serial number use those numbers to look it up on Toro's site

ajallen wrote:
What are you talking about? The bolts that were in the machine at the time were the factory bolts which obviously weren't THAT weak(however, the chain didn't make it to the impeller. Just wrapped itself around the auger)! And I have no idea if those were fully threaded or not. But what difference does that make anyway? Are you saying fully threaded bolts are weaker? If that is the case, then why is it so common for shear pins for many models out there not to be fully threaded, and why are the 2012 oxe models coming with bolts exactly like they sold me? I have absolutely no clue what your comment has to do with the bolts they sold me. They are fine, I know that.

Like I said, if those bolts you say were used in the past on the oxe's, they aren't anymore and that is what matters right now. They must have changed for a reason.

A fully threaded bolt is slightly thinner.

giocam wrote:

For the new machines they are now saying to use the 321-11 but if you look up your model by model & serial number I think that you will find it says 321-44 either bolt will work sorry if I offended you. And yes the 321-44 is weaker.

ajallen wrote:
Well maybe they were too weak which resulted in the change. Either way, I have the current bolts and that works for me..

After 4 years and about 200 hours of heavy operation, the impeller bolts broke on my Toro 826OE. I never found any obstruction -- was just throwing heavy, crusty EOD when I heard a metallic crack and the impeller stopped throwing.

The stock bolt (321-44) is a grade 5, 1/4 - 20 x 1 7/8". It is a tap bolt, meaning full threaded. This bolt is not too easy to find in hardware stores (mine only had it in grade 2) but I did find a 1/4 - 20 x 2" tap bolt at the local machine shop. The bolt had gold zinc coating and came in grade 8. I got 1/4 - 20 nylon locknuts in stainless steel and was back in business. Though the grade 8 is slightly harder, I'm not too worried about that. I put some grade 5s on order.

Also picked up some extra grade 5 auger bolts in 5/16 - 18 x 2 1/4". These have 1 1/4" smooth shank and 1" threads. They require 5/16 x 1/2" spacers and 5/16 - 18 nylon locknuts.

Toro doesn't really say that the bolts will never shear. They just say that shear-pins are not needed. It was less trouble to find fairly common bolts than model specific shear pins.

samdog wrote:

Hah, this is too funny.  My 4 year old Toro 826 OXE quit throwing snow today for no apparent reason.  (We have had about Two Feet of heavy stuff here in NY this month, but today i was cleaning up 1-2" of fluffy powder!)  No apparent "clank" or anything, although I think I did pick up a small ice chunk right when it stopped, luckily I was almost done.

So, I came here to the masters to see if this thing has a shear bolt just for the impeller before I even started my research or had a chance to look at it and this was right up at the top, Abby's OPE never disappoints.

Question, how can I be sure that this is the issue?  The impeller spins freely on the shaft right now without anything else turning, I assume this is the sure sign?  And I need to pick up 2 (and some backups) of these and it is no big deal to just thread them into the shaft?

Thank You,

Dan

daniel wrote:
yes u need new sheer bolts for the impeller... the Only thing that attaches the impeller to the auger input shaft is those sheer bolts..

niper99 wrote:

OK, new shear bolts from the local Toro dealer installed and she is throwing like a champ again...  I had some trouble finding the holes to line up, it is a bit tight back there by the impeller.  Finally used my electrical tester thing and knocked out a piece of the old one, can confirm it looks like it was bronze-colored and fully threaded.  I didn't torque it very much at all, as I was scared of deforming anything, is it ok if it is just past hand tight on there?

Now to explain to the wife how I spent $58 on two bolts..  (heh, of course had to get backups and for the auger, and some other things)

Thanks a lot everyone,

Dan

daniel wrote:
lol... snug is just fine on the sheer bolts

I don't know if this applies to all shear bolts but my owners manual calls for 11ft. lbs. as a torque rating for the shear bolts on my machine. Marc

mml4 wrote:

Thanks for the info!  I think 11 ft. lbs might be the margin of error on my $10 harbor freight wrench, but I have been meaning to try it out.  It worked great on the driveway today though even if it was only a couple of inches.

My owners manual just has 100 pages telling you not to wear a long scarf or stick your face in the augers in 50 different languages :)