Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

(thread updated 12/15/13, same problem!)


I was negligent last year and never put my new 11.5HP Platinum Ariens into storage.  It sat with 1/2 tank of fuel from the dealer, was never used during that remarkable winter and now.... when I tried starting it not a thing happened.  The motor turned over without a sputter.

Having learned a few things from reading this board (thank you) I found the carb and cleaned out the not surprisingly clogged jet with a single strand of wire from lamp cord.  The bottom of the bowl was clean, I reused the bowl gaskets tightening things enough that it didn't leak.  I didn't want to overdo it.  It started immediatly

I then added 1/2 tank of fresh gas to the 1/2 tank of old gas that came with it, some Stabil, and inflated the tires to 18PSI.

Some questions:
1)  Should I check on or clean anything else? 

2)  Is there a service manual for the engine?  Just looking at it, I didn't know which cover to remove to find the carb and still don't know which cover the spark plug is hiding under.  I see generic instructions for operating the engine, but not for service.

3)  The inside of the bowl was uniform all around, and there's a tail of sorts molded into the exterior underside.  Does it matter which direction it's installed?  I know with the older carbs it does, but it didn't seem to matter with this one.

Of interest, I had an older 9526DLE stored next to it, under similar circumstances, and it started instantly. 

I don't know everything but I do know vehicles have the technology and are designed for ethanol fuel. Also most vehicles don't sit for a year with that fuel not being used. Ethanol causes problems with small engines that do no have the technology and sometimes were not designed to use ethanol. Dealer Friend makes a killing on ethanol related small engine problems . If any petroleum engineer out there can clarify with real expertise that would be great

specialkkl wrote:
Modern engine technology is to manage fuel delivery for combustion.  I've not yet heard of any vehicle technology that designed to preserve the chemical properites of ethanol/gasoline blends.

I own over 30 pieces of equipment with small engines.  From a 6 cylinder liquid cooled motorcycle, vintage two stroke twin Yamaha motorcyles, two riding mowers, numerous push mowers, trimmers, blower, outboard engines, chainsaws, three cylinder diesel generator, two liquid cooled ATVs, and many more assorted pieces of OPE.   I've owned, operated and worked on some of this equipment for over thirty years.  One would think that with the introduction of ethanol in our gasoline, one would notice a spike in carburetor/fuel related problems shortly after consumption and use of it.  That didn't happen.  Nothing has changed over the years.  Everything works just fine and some of the engines I own are getting close to 40 year old.

There's far too much mis-information concerning ethanol fuel blends.  It's nowhere near as bad as snake oil vendors would like us to believe.

Buy clean fuel, keep it in clean, air tight containers in a cool storage area and the fuel will last for months.  Don't keep fuel too long if it's going to be kept in a warm environment.  I think heat and prolonged exposure to air  are far more of a problem than ethanol.   Sloppy fuel management is probably more to blame for fuel degradation than the ethanol.

borat wrote:
I do the same practice as mentioned above. 

Just to add to this from my experience.  The last two years, I've stopped adding fuel preservatives.  I've used fuel that is well over six months old on my lawn mower, string trimmer, edger, leaf blower, and snowblower.  So far, I've had no problems with carburetor or engine running properly.  I do follow the practice of running the fuel out when I'm not expecting to use the equipment for some time.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to pay for any additives without scientific proof that it does what it advertised to do.  I'll take my chances and learn from my mistakes, but I'm not paying for mystery products that gives me warm and fuzzy that it somehow protects and prevents problems.  So no more Slick 50, Octane boosters or fuel molecule alignment magnets.  :)

aa335:

Good practice and excellent advice. 

It takes years of experience to learn that much of what alarmists and salespeople want to sell us is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.  No real scientific data to back up their claims but plenty of inuendo from customers citing mechanical miracles and endorsing their preferred snake oil. 

Many people are buying and using stuff to solve problems that don't exist.  The so called "preventative" dose.  I've been using product "X" for years and never had a  problem.  Millions have not been using product "X" and didn't have a problem either.  If people want to pull the wool over their own eyes, have at it.  However, I went down that route and came to the same conclusion as you.  Miracle juice vendors are selling a product that we absolutely do not need.  Kind of like the placebo effect.  I paid big bucks for this stuff and hey,......I "think" it works.  

borat wrote:
I agree that *often* many products fall under the "snake oil" label, and dont really do anything..
but it cant said that ALL products are ALWAYS snake oil..
(im not saying that you said that Borat! ;) just making a point)
some products do legitimattelly work as advertised!
(the tricky part is..how do you know which is which?)

Some people might lump Sea Foam in the "snake oil" catagory..but personally I believe it is an excellent product, and I use it.
why? not because "I read it on the internet" or "my Dad or Grandfather always used it, so I use it too"..
but because I have *personal* direct experience that it cleaned a carb and fixed a gas leak!

I had a leaky Tecumseh carb on a 1971 Ariens snowblower..
I tried all the "simple" stuff first, asked basic questions, and took a lot of abuse from forum trolls..
(not this forum, a different one)..I didnt even know what a "float" was when I started! ;)

Nothing was working to fix the leak..the *last* step would have been to take it apart and clean it out, and/or rebuild the carb with a rebuild kit.
but I was a newbie with ZERO experience with carbs, and the thought of taking it apart seemed pretty scary and complicated..
(to some, "rebuilding a carb" might be a walk in the park, but to me it sounded very daunting..I wasnt to go that route unless I had no other choice)

So I tried one last suggested possible solution..Sea Foam..
added it to the gas, fired it up a few times..and it WORKED!
the leak stopped!

Is it possible the leak would have stopped anyway if I *hadnt* used the Sea Foam?
maybe..but that seems pretty unlikely..it was leaking for weeks, a dirty sticking float is unlikely to magically "fix itself"..
I believe it is far more likely the Sea Foam actually has cleaning properties, and worked as advertised,
and actually cleaned and un-stuck the float, fixing the gas leak..
I cant prove it! ;) but it seems the only plausible conclusion to me..

So I dont believe *all* products of this nature are snake-oil..
I dont use Sea-Foam with every tank of gas, but usually with the first tank of the season..

Scot

I used to use SeaFoam.  Read all the "miracle cures" that it was supposed to have performed.  At the time, I was in the "preventative dose" mode.  When I did encounter an engine problem with a rough running Johnson outboard, I resorted to SeaFoam to cure the condition.  Results?  Take off carb and clean it.  SeaFoam did nothing.

There have been a few people here that have experimented with SeaFoam directly on carboned surfaces of pistons etc.  Results after weeks sitting in SeaFoam?  Virtually nothing.  Trouts2 also supplied the forum with a pretty good account of his experiments with SeaFoam.  Do a search and read what his results were. 

Not to diminish your account of your experience with the product but, being a trained diesel mechanic in my youth and having decades of experience working on small engines, and also from my experiences using various additives, I'm more convinced now than ever that all of the "miracle in a bottle" formulas are more promise than effective. 

Can't explain what happened with your carb for sure,  but if I were to guess, I'd bet that the float needle seat was contaminated from old fuel sitting in the carb.  Float needle couldn't seat properly allowing excess fuel to overfill the float bowl causing the leak.   When you started to use the machine and added fresh gas, over time, fresh fuel finally dissolved the varnish contamination allowing the float needle to finally seat properly.  

Drain your carbs on machines to be stored seasonally.  Buy clean uncontaminated fuel and keep it in clean, air-tight containers in a cool location.  You'll never need to buy fuel additives ever again.

borat wrote:
That would make sense..if the needle was sticky when I first bought the machine, but that wasnt the case..
I had already been using the machine for a month or so, used it several times, all was well..So it already had "fresh gas" in its system *before* the carb leak started..
then the leak started, then the leak stopped after using the seafoam..
So Im still convinced the sea foam did clear things up..

and I remember those "expirements" with sea foam..
many people thought they were completely invalid, because the product was being used in a way, during the experiments,
that it would never be used in real life..So those tests dont necessarily prove, or disprove, anything..

Borat, you could be right!
but its just as likely I am right..

Scot

Could have simply been a small particle between the float needle and the seat as well.  Engine operation, vibration, fuel flow may have dislodged it. 

You may be right, but, from my experience with fuel additives, I'd lean toward the alternative.  

Here's a suggestion.  Try not using fuel additives for a few years.  Be vigilant with your fuel handling practices (clean fuel, clean, sealed containers kept as full as possible, drained carburetors and fuel tanks).  See what happens.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

>>many people thought they were completely invalid, because the product was being used in a way, during the experiments, that it would never be used in real life..So those tests don't necesairly prove, or disprove, anything.

   That issue was addressed in the post with the factory, you missed it.   The experiment was gone over with the rep who claimed to be a funny car mechanic and in fact used Sea Foam in the same way as done in my experiments.   He gave the ok to what I had done and also said when he did them he had completely different results, that the product worked perfectly.   I did my experiments several times over a few years and never had any success.    

>>Dealer Friend makes a killing on ethanol related small engine problems

>>Shops love the ethanol for all the problems it causes.

    Many do.  It's a great line.   I've come across a bunch who fault ethanol.  I've have not had one problem I can blame on ethanol over the years with hundreds of pieces of equipment, mostly blowers, but including, wackers, chainsaws, mowers, and blowers so two strokes, four strokes, float carbs, diaphrams, pulser jets, fuel pumps, or anything else.  There are probably shoddy aftermarket parts or sub quality parts that can't deal with ethanol but I have not come across any. 

>>it cleaned a carb and fixed a gas leak

    Worked as claimed??  Even Sea Foam would not be that nutty to claim it fixed leaks.  This is a new high for the marvels of Sea Foam, "the mechanic in a can".    Few know that the Great Sage Alfred E Newman who coined "What me worry?" also coined, "Hay, it works for me".

Posted from the crypt.

Wow..  Same darned thing the next year (almost to the day!) and I thought I did it right.

Last fall I added Stabil to 1/2 tank of fuel and let the carb run dry and stall the engine before storing it.

This year, it started right up and thought I was set to go, but it stalled as soon as there was a load.  Repeatedly.  Then after idling a long time tried again and it went a bit further and died under load.  Impossible to start again.

Took off the plastic shroud covers, removed the spark plug and it was dry.  Removed the fuel line at the carb and it flowed well.  Removed bowl and found a little soggy rice like crud.  Cleaned the small orifices in the bowl nut I think that was the problem), ran some fuel through the bowl-less carb to check flow, put it back together and it started right up and went to work.

Thankful for boards like this that teach the average Joe what to do at times like that. 



I do want to give the carb a deeper cleaning, but haven't been able to find a model number to guide me along.  It's this exact engine:

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/engines/snow-blower-engines/1150-series-pf
I believe the part number for the engine is 08200811.

Any help identifying the carb appreciated, along with advice for anything I should be doing at this time.  I never did find the service manual for this engine, either.  Does one exist?



Should the bowl be removed and cleaned in the spring after it's run dry and before it goes into summer storage?

Its one great machine when it's running!