Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R

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jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Original Message Feb 13, 2012 7:33 pm

That brings the Toro count to five. It really needs to snow so I can get rid of a couple. Or just stop counting. Got this one at another auction for $29.00 .
Said it needed a flywheel... It does and has a few more issues, But the rest of the blower is in excellent condition. 2010 model 210R 38517

Flywheel is junk. This is like the chicken or the egg thing. Don't know what could cause this.
Unless the nut backed off. But the magneto did get trashed. Nor did the recoil.
So what ever happened it happened fast. Ive seen keys shear if the engine does a massive seize.
Or drops a rod off the crank. But I've never seen a hub crack even thought it's aluminum.

Tore up the key way slot as well.
What's interesting is that the slot is flared out on both sides.
There is galling on the crank so the flywheel did spin at least a couple of times.
Maybe someone installed the wrong size key? Which allowed it to tip in the slot first.
Then things just started to happen.

Took out the governor parts.

Am finding out some interesting things. Such as, I've got a flywheel off of a 1999 Toro CCR2400 and according to
the Toro Parts Master. The two engines (084132-0120-E1) are the same and they both use the same flywheel.
I say they are the same, but one is an E1 and the 210R is and E8 not really sure what that is?
They also both use the same crank. And I have the crank as well.
Haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do with the key way slot. The slot still has some pretty good sides but
the top portion is pretty bad. I may just eith tack weld a new key in place on the sides. Then square it back up with a with a cutting wheel
on a Dremel. Not sure. I cleaned it up and it doesn't look to bad.

The casing is so close to the auger pulley that you can't get the belt off without taking off the pulley. The casing doesn't appear to be bent.
From what I could see. That's a pain.

The cutting edge / scraper tilts under spring tension. And is much beefier than the older ones. It would also be easier to replace.
Two bolts, and they are in a much better location. Won't take as much abuse and rust as badly.

The tank just slips on a mounting post. That's it, no other supports other than the neck going through the top cover.

And there is a little "tang" that hooks on the edge of the oval opening that keeps it from sliding off. Once you push it all the way down and on.
Which it is not in the photo.

Overall the thing is in really good condition.
I also looked down the plug hole and there isn't any carbon at all on the head of the piston, none.
Which is a little strange.

This message was modified Feb 13, 2012 by jrtrebor

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jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #15 Feb 14, 2012 7:24 pm

borat - Yes, it is the 5hp R-Tek

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #16 Feb 14, 2012 7:50 pm

The R-tek is a fine engine but I wouldn't be as inclined to spin it up like the Tecumseh 139 cc engines. The connecting rod big end is a two piece arrangement and I wouldn't be confident that it could handle very high rpms. I'd probably be comfortable with 4500 -4700 but not much above that. I have no data nor experience with the R-tek to validate my reluctance to spin it up. It might hold up just fine. However, being that my 221 is only one year old, I'm not in too much of a hurry to see if it will stay together or let go. If I can get my hands on an older one in a cheap used machine, I'll gladly crank it up. Until then, maybe someone else will volunteer to jack theirs up and let us know how well things go.

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #17 Feb 14, 2012 8:06 pm

I think before I put the engine back in the frame. I'm going to pull the muffler and do a little very mild porting. Nothing more than smoothing out any casting bumps etc.
And maybe matching the ports to the gaskets or vice versa. Same thing with the intake. Always wanted to do that. Used to do it on my 125 and 250 Honda moto cross bikes.
Mainly work to the reed valve housings. We'll see. Hopefully I can locate the gov. parts tomorrow. And my friend will be available to Tig weld the broken bolt stud.
That's all I think I'm going to need.

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #18 Feb 14, 2012 8:46 pm

Are you planning on taking the engine completely apart?   If not, you might get grinding dust and debris into the cylinder.

You might be able to get around that by blocking the carburetor and supplying compressed air down through the spark plug hole while you're working. Pressurizing the engine should prevent debris from getting into the crank case and intake ports.

Not the way I'd do it but if you're careful, not much if any should get into the cylinder. you'll need a fairly stiff breeze coming out of the exhaust ports. After the work is done, I'd tip the engine to have the spark plug hole on the bottom and blast a copious amount of something like solvent or WD-40 into the cylinder to flush anything that may have gotten inside out of the cylinder.

Good luck.

Edit:   Reference previous discussion concerning the size of ports limiting engine speed. Below are cylinders from a 1974 RD350 motorcycle. Engine in stock form produced 39 h.p. at 8500 rpm. My modified engine is making close to 50 h.p. Note size of intake and exhaust ports compared to the ports on a 139cc Tecumseh engine. Each Yamaha cylinder is 175cc which is only 36cc larger than the Tecumseh. The Yamaha's ports are huge by comparison to those on the Tecumseh. Hence the ability to spin faster and make much, much more power.

RD350 stock intake ports:

RD350 stock exhaust ports:

RD350 engine

This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by borat

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #19 Feb 14, 2012 10:40 pm

I worked at a Yamaha Dealer for a while in the Seventies. If that's the engine I think it is.
That engine and bike were screamers when stock.
The thing was scary quick.

I take it all the black is powdercoat?

This message was modified Feb 14, 2012 by jrtrebor

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #20 Feb 15, 2012 9:16 am

Yes that's the engine from the '74 Yamaha RD350 and I did have it powder coated along with numerous other parts.

This is the bike it's in. Completely restored and a little modified. The paint job is custom. I've always wanted a yellow bike. The original colour was "plum purple".

Note expansion chambers. That's where most of the additional power comes from. Carbs got fatter jets and stock air intake/filter replaced with a much freer breathing unit. It also has programmable electronic ignition which is a big benefit for combustion management, power delivery, engine cooling and reliability. These bikes were quick alright but more famous for their handling than all out acceleration/speed. In their day, they were stripped down and used for racing against motorcycles of all sizes. They were so successful that the motorcycle racing fraternity at the time had to set up a racing series that would not allow the entry of two cycle Yamahas. Even by today's standards, these things are very good handlers and a delight to ride.

Not getting any snow. Might as well dream summer......

jrtrebor

Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #21 Feb 15, 2012 9:23 am

That's really nice looking. They were great handling bikes. And from what I remember they also really liked standing up on the back wheel.

I like yellow as well, painted my 250 dirt bike that color. Painted the frame white. My friends called it the "Banana".
Thinking back that was an appropriate name considering all the slipping, sliding and falling down I used to do.

This message was modified Feb 15, 2012 by jrtrebor

aa335

Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #22 Feb 15, 2012 10:09 am

I don't know much about the RD350 engine but from the pictures, that's looks very compact for an engine that size. Is that an oversquare engine with HUGE ports? Seems like that engine would love to breathe and rev high, has a huge appetite for fuel and oil too. I can see now why you have the Toro 221QE and Tecumseh powered SS in your stable.

Thanks for posting the pictures. Definitely off topic, but I don't mind. I enjoy seeing labor of love restoration of legendary machines. BTW, didn't these machines at the time had drum brakes? Does the black powder coating over the cooling fins of the engine reduce cooling efficiency?

This message was modified Feb 15, 2012 by aa335

borat

Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Well, bought another new to me SS - Toro 210R
Reply #23 Feb 15, 2012 12:47 pm

aa335 wrote:

The stock bike was around 350 lbs. and 39 h.p. My yellow RD is 300 lbs. and making a conservative 50 h.p. The engine is over-square and the porting is stock although was a bit radical from the manufacturer. Power band is none too wide in stock form hence the sudden burst of power and willingness to wheelie. With the programmable electronic ignition, the power band is much wider and the bike is much more manageable. Reasonable torque at lower rpm and a real kick in the pants at anything past 5000 rpm depending on which gear it's in. The bike can be either easy or hard on fuel. All depends on how you're riding.

The 1973 RD350 was the first of the Yamaha two strokes to come out with a disk front brake and rear hub brake. Which, on a bike this light is more than enough brakes. I've got a 350cc, 1972 Yamaha R5 in my shed waiting for it's turn in the garage. It's got hub brakes front and rear. Another major difference between the R5 and RD is that the R5 has a piston port engine. The RDs have reeds and were advertised as having "Torque Induction" due to the addition of reeds.

I did quite a bit of research on the powder coating of the engine. Older (thicker) applications may possibly have insulated the fins somewhat but not of any significance. New applications which are thinner but just as durable have virtually no effect on cooling. It's also a known fact that black painted engines dissipate heat better.   Speaking of heat dissipation, the programmable ignition, as well as shaving the squish band off of the cylinder heads contribute considerably to engine cooling efficiency. Adjusting the timing to expedite hot exhaust gasses from the cylinder into the expansion chamber as well as very free flowing exhaust help keep the engine relatively cool. From what I've read, shaving .030 from the squish band improves flame travel and gas flow which helps cooling.

I'm not an expert by any means and all of my knowledge has been garnered from the brains of true two cycle fanatics.   The most desired two cycles are the Yamaha RDs, followed by the Kawasaki triples. RDs in the US are cult status. They'll be with us for a long time providing people with interest keep them alive.

This message was modified Feb 15, 2012 by borat

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