Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Guys,

I may get to go check out some SS's. One is a Yardman 21" 5hp 2-stroke. The other is a Toro CCR2000e 2-stroke.

I am leaning towards the Yardman, based on boratification possibilities. I'm guessing/hoping it has a 5hp Tecumseh, maybe the HSK850. The Toro would have a 4.5hp Suzuki engine, from what I understand. I don't care about electric start. Any reason to avoid the Yardman? I realize it's probably not as solid/durable a machine as the Toro. But if it could be ramped up more in the power department, I could live with that. Thanks for any feedback.

Just out of curiousity, does the the your Craftsman seems to have the more of engine weight in front or rear of the axles?  I find it that a machine is easier maneuver when the weight is more towards the rear, but it tends to ride up and bounce around more.   10 lbs difference might not mean much if both machines have the same weight balance over the wheels, but it is quite noticeable when that 10 lbs is in front of the wheels

The Craftsman is a longer machine overall and it does take more effort to tilt the front upward compared to the MTD.   Without going into a thorough weight distribution analysis between the two machines, my observations lead me to believe that some of the additional weight of the Craftsman is more forward.  The electric start motor is toward the front and bottom of the engine.  That alone puts a few pounds in the right place.  

>>>I just weighed both machines with some very accurate American Tourister luggage scales.  MTD was 59.6 lbs.

 

   Just checked your MTD model and it’s very close to mine.  Mine has electric start so that might be the difference.

 

  My Craftsman is a 3/21 so some weight there.  Mine has electric start. 

 

Oops, just thought of the amount of gas in the tanks would make a difference.

 

>>>Trust me.  Their is a major difference in how both machines get the job done.

    I believe you, it’s the reasons.  Weight could be it. ??  As aa335 mentioned how the weight is distributed would be a factor along with handles and other things. 

    Ten lbs will make a difference on a big two stage.  There’s more leverage there but weight would be a factor for the SS’s. 

 

   Just checked the Craftsman weight again and it’s the same.  Not much gas in the tank.

 

   Without question the weight on the MTD is much more forward compared to the Craftsman.  The Craftsman tips backwards with the handle falling to the ground on the slightest bump in front.  If I just lower the handles slightly it will fall backwards.  The MTD goes forward from a much lower position.  The weight on Craftsman is pretty much over the wheels and on the MTD forward of the wheels. 

 

   Maybe my Craftsman is build different. If your’s does not fall back with a couple of inch tilt to the handle then it’s different. 

 

    The angle of the handle bar to the machine is the same on both at least on my machines.

Just read your last post.  Mine is definetly not the same.  I can't put it someplace and walk away without checking the handlebar to see if it's going to tip over. 

Yeah, sounds like the two Craftsman models are considerably different machines and different again from the MTD.   As I've said, it's got plenty of power.  It's just not as eager to dig into and throw snow as well as the Craftsman.  For use on the deck, the MTD is fine.  If I were to want to press it into serious duties, I'd be doing some experimentation with weights over the front of the intake.

Sad thing is that we're not getting much snow.  It's like freaking spring here.  Snow is melting when it should be falling........  Despite the pleasantries of mild temperatures, I'm not happy with that.

It felt weird doing spring cleaning in February.  I was cleaning out my garage, detailing the car, and summerizing 3 snowblowers this weekend.  It was so warm I thought about waking up the grass with some spring fertilizer feeding.

However, I feel being cheated out of my share of snowblowing.  I haven't used even one gallon of gas on snow removal yet. 

   Looked at the Murray 3hp and Craftsman 3/21.   With the cases off the frame parts look the same.   Looking from the side with the wheels as the reference the Craftsman's engine sits further back than the Murray engine. 

Wow, lots of good info. Thanks guys.

aa335, really appreciate the pointer on what the paddles might have come from. That's great to know.

And I'm in complete agreement with you. I do not like how the engine is currently a big, unsupported cantilevered beam. That makes me uncomfortable. Fortunately for me, there is a threaded stud sticking through the recoil shroud, at the bottom of the engine. I took a look at the parts list drawings, and it does not appear that anything is supposed to attach there (strange). But it seems like a great place to add an engine mount, probably going to the big green tube that goes right below the engine. I will have to measure it up, then I'm hoping to be able to make something to grab onto that tube, and bolt to the engine. That would make the engine mounting vastly more secure. The sheetmetal that it mounts to by the shaft is not terribly thick. trouts2, they had an opportunity to mount it rather like your Toro picture, but apparently chose not to.

This machine has a very different look/feel from the Ariens. The Ariens has a much larger housing (even ignoring that mine has the smaller -600 engine). There's a lot of empty space in there, and still would be in the version with the -850. The Yardman, by contrast is very compact, as was noted previously. They may not quite have packed 10 lbs of stuff into a 5 lb bag, but they definitely took a different approach than Ariens, which has 5 lbs of stuff in a 10 lb bag. The Yardman is noticeably heavier (larger engine, plus electric start. Also a metal lower body, vs plastic on the Ariens). But I wonder if I might actually be easier to carry up the stairs if I had to. Being physically smaller, you can get the weight closer to your body, and it's also just less bulky.

Thanks for the positive feedback on the machine & specifically the impeller setup. I was starting to worry that I may have simply bought an albatross. But if the Powercurve impeller might actually be a bit of an improvement (for performance) in some respects, then maybe the swap isn't a terrible thing. I do wish I could at least slide the impeller to the right, to center it, but I doubt there would be a practical way to do that, while still letting the drive pulley mount to it. I haven't taken a close look at that, though. Just took a look at my pics again, and looked up the part # molded into the drive pulley. It's a Toro #. And the stock Yardman belt is a v-belt, whereas the machine has a ribbed-style belt (and engine sheave). So who knows what all was swapped around to make this change I'll confess I don't like that kind of thing, because it makes me wonder if the setup will really work, and it also becomes difficult to replace a part if something wears or breaks. Is the broken thing the part # that's actually listed in the parts list, or something else?

If the engine wear doesn't look too bad, that's good to know, thanks.

RedOctobyr,

Have you thought about pulling the HSK850 from the Yardman and put it into your Ariens SS322 chassis?  Seems like that chassis can accommodate a 3 hp, 5hp, and a 7hp engine with just a few mounting brackets here and there.   I think Ariens have a good design on this snowblower,   I think that molded auger is pretty cool and just need some serious power to drive it.  I've been toying with the idea of picking up one of these Ariens SS, pull the stock engine, and drop in a GX200 Honda clone engine.  The GX200 engine is a four stroke, 200cc, has very good torque, combined with that stiff molded auger, should be able to dig through EOD very well, for a SS, that is.  The only trouble is that this engine is OHV, dimensionally it might not fit inside the housing.

Anyways, I was just throwing out some ideas since you have the SS322 and the HSK850 sitting around that potentially can make an awesome machine.  Somehow, they should be united.  :)  I found this youtube video on the Ariens 722EC, that's where I got the idea from. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GOixwhKtMg&feature=related  ,  skip to 8:00 for closeup on the Ariens 722EC

The other machine on that video is the Honda HS928TCD, one of my favorite 2 stage machine.  It's a shame Honda does not sell this model in the US.

I have, in fact, considered that. The swap is probably doable, though it might take a bit of tinkering. I might need to make something for the second set of engine mounts, the ones near the recoil housing, for the Ariens frame. Assuming that both engines have the same crankshaft dimensions, I *should* be able to pull off the V-belt sheave from the -600 and put it on the -850. I'm not sure how the electric start plug would mount in the Ariens.

The impeller RPMs would be too low, since the -850 spins slower than the -600, and comes with a larger pulley sheave when used in the Ariens. At 3600 RPM, the impeller RPM would be 1000 using the -600's pulley, vs the 1200 that it should be. Cranking the RPMs would raise it back up, but would still be lower than with a larger -850 sized sheave at the same RPM. The flip side would be added impeller torque (due to the lower "gear ratio" for the impeller), so it wouldn't bog as much in heavier stuff It could become an EOD-busting SS. 

Haven't looked into any details yet. No idea what the larger pulley sheave costs, if I wanted to swap it. One downside is that my Ariens does not have a chute crank. The "fancier" SS522 comes stock with a chute crank. The other option, of course, would be to sell the Yardman and simply buy an SS522 in the first place. I don't know if I could put the smaller -600 in the Yardman. One thing that keeps going through my mind is wondering if it's just silly to be thinking about swapping engines around, and maybe I should just get the Yardman ready for action and leave it at that