Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

  Yep, those side slashes look like shark gill slits, aggressive and waiting for more revs to suck in air.

 

  On the scout for a Borat-like machine and came across a similar but unfortunately 3hp version.  Pretty sure it’s the same model Craftsman as Borat’s with a HSK600.  I wondered what that big case was all about and it’s not much.  It’s an empty cavern in there with the peanut size 600.  Tons of room. 

 

   Twenty dollars, electric start, augers fine, and it fires up with gas in the throat.  I put out a couple of emails looking for an 850.

 

   The red one is Murray 3hp HSK600.  Ten dollars.  Got that apart and it seems fine.  Augers are full, 95 psi compression and the carb cleaned right up.  Starts fine and runs well. It needs a chute hold down bracket in the front but that’s about it for flaws. 

    It was a surprise to find a carb bowl access plate on the bottom cover.  But after seeing what was required to get the bottom cover off for carb access it makes sense.  Getting the bottom cover off requires taking off the belt cover and they used bolts rather than sheet metal screws.  The bolts are hard to get to.  So I think the carb bowl plate was added to give the mechanic a shot at cleaning the carb somewhat and not have to go through taking off the covers.  A carb cleaning on this would probably be $200 at a shop. 

 

    The Craftsman cover is ringed with scads of bolts and looked like a hassle which is why the red Murray got done first.  Not looking forward to taking off the Craftsman covers. 

    

Interesting. The way the engine is mounted in yours looks odd to me, borat Looks like it's just hanging out in space. I do really like your engine mount, nice work! Apart from the color being different it looks downright professional. And nice shot of the boratificator (governor string)!

For comparison, this is my SS322. Very different under the hood. Excuse the mess, this was when I'd just gotten it, and hadn't cleaned it up yet. The pics were just for my use, so they're not great. Mine has the HSK600, with a 33" x 3/8" v-belt.

Oh, and trouts2, if I were to guess, I'd imagine that # of pulls for the compression reading to stabilize would vary a lot. Even assuming your compression tester has a checkvalve right at the sparkplug fitting, the length and diameter of the tubing between the valve and gauge will affect the # of pulls required to stabilize the reading. The engine displacement will also make a difference (a small engine will need more pulls, since it doesn't cram as much air past the checkvalve on each compression stroke). In addition, you of course want to minimize the volume before the checkvalve. One time I forgot, and checked this engine after connecting the ~3" cylindrical extension tube that came with my compression tester. The reading dropped from 90 to about 75, due to the added volume in the compression chamber, as it now also had to fill the extension tube. I'd significantly lowered the effective compression ratio of the engine. Removed the extension tube, so that the checkvalve was right at the sparkplug hole, and it went back up to 90. The engine was cold for my checks.

I'm not disputing that it's a useful thing to observe/compare. Just that there may be several reasons why guidelines for # of pulls aren't published. I have no idea what my engine read after one pull. I check my engines by pulling quickly until the reading stops climbing.

Thanks for the compliments Red.

I made the engine mount brace from a bracket used hold switches for a satellite dish.  It had only one 90 degree bend in it so I had to measure and bend it again to make it fit just right against the handle upright.   Then I had to grind out the semi circle to clear the output shaft.  After that, I put grease on the available holes (lucky that they were already there and threaded) on the engine block and pressed the plate against the holes to make marks to drill the holes.   Once I had the holes drilled, I had to use spacers between the plate and the engine block to allow the brace to line up properly with the handle upright so I could mark a spot to drill a hole to put a bolt through the plate and handle upright.  Put locktite on the bolts into the block and used locktite and a lock nut on the handle end bolt.  The brace is quite a bit thicker than the original sheet metal used for the engine mount plate, making it stiffer and more resistant to vibration and flexing.  So far, it seems to be holding up well. 

Cost?  About the same as the piece of string.   Nothing better than fixing something with nothing and it staying fixed. 

I'm surprised that these 2 stroke engines shown are mounted to the chassis only on the side of the output shaft.  I'm used to seeing the Honda HS621 engine mounted in three places, output shaft side, bottom, and at the front to the bucket.  You can literally stand on the engine and it will not break loose from the mounts.  I'm sure these two stroke engines are much lighter and can rev up higher without the same vibrations as a 4 stroke engine so mounting is not as demanding, but I'm very surprised to see the engine dangling and not supported on both sides. 

Borat,

   The lower brace is different on mine.  Yours looks like a side to side rod under the engine.  Mine has a U shapped iron from side to side up higher by the back of the intake housing.  Some bracing in your picture high on the right is different.  My manual is from 1996 so close but I guess the two models have some differences besides engine and belts.  Nice job on the plate. 

Red,

    Intersting on the length of air making a difference to the readings.  It never occured to me.  I have been using a 16 inch flex connector to the gauge for years.  I guess it would take a smaller engine more pumps to work the tube aire versus a bigger piston engine.  

Trouts:

I've looked high and low for any type of service manual for the HSK850.  No such luck.  Difficult engine to get information on.  What I did find out however is what the "HSK" stands for.  H - horizontal SK - Snow King.   Not valuable info but at least I can now keep the letters straight.

Observe broken engine mount.  It's cracked all the way down.  Note thickness of brace plate.  The original mount is thin sheet metal.  Looks thick but it's actually bent over.



This is the best I could find for an HSK850 engine diagram.  Shabby resolution.  Not much detail but at least gives us an idea.  If anyone has knowledge of where downloads can be found for this engine, please let us know.

   I was asking for the Craftaman manuals.

For the HSK850 user put  the number below 31AS231-729 and 1 for a serial number at this site http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do For a parts view you should be able to get the number off the side of the engine and google it.   That should find partstree and your engine. If not then put your number here. http://www.outdoordistributors.com/Tecumseh/tecumseh_part_lists.html

Trying to get a Craftsman manual will be very difficult.   Never seen  Sears give anything of use away for free.   Probably better off finding a Murray manual for the equivalent Craftsman machine. 

   I was going to email you the Tecumseh user and my Craftsman owners but could not find your email address.

   The Techumeh user is not so helpful and the Craftsman is not a 100% match.  Some of the owners manuals
have a exploded views but not this one.  There's actually quite a bit few Craftsman manuals online but not much
from Craftsman directly.  

You can sometimes find Murray and many other old manuals at the site below.  If not a direct match you can poke around
for a model close and often get numbers for parts.
http://www.partsandservice.com/

This place is also hit or miss.  Last month I picked up an old Craftsman table saw that had never been used.  Got the
manual from the place below.  Nice old time manual with an extensive section on saw setup plus a parts section.

http://www.manualsonline.com/

borat, how about this one? It's the "Tecumseh Technician's Handbook", it covers the HSK850.

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/tecumseh/Tecumseh_HSK-HXL_TVS-TVXL_Engines_Service_Information.pdf

The Technician's Manual that covers the HSK600 can be found at:

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/tecumseh/Tecumseh_2-Cycle_Engines_Service_Information.pdf

If it's of any help, this is an Owner's Manual for the HSK600-870

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/owner_manuals/9538/TECUMSEH-Engine-L060103

Sometimes, on partstree.com, I'll zoom in a bunch of times (as I recall, they have Zoom In and Zoom Out buttons), until the image is really big, then right-click it and do Save Image. That way you can get a higher-resolution version than it shows you by default. Still not great, but an improvement sometimes.

  Borat,

   Pictures below of the bracing on the Murray 3hp and Craftsman 3/21.  Both have a U channel cross brace.  The right side of the engine is not supported.  Some Toro models have a brace the left aide of the engine with a bracket that runs from supports below the engine to a bolt sticking out of the center of the recoil.  It's good support but makes changine a pull rope involved.

   Took a look at the 850 manual Red posted.  There's a caution in there about running higher RPMs.  They say it will lead to a lean condition and over heating.  The effect won't be immediate but over time probably degrade the engine.  Seems reasonable enough and monitoring the plug would probably show a deeper grayish to darker dry ash.  Maybe that can be offeset by running a bit richer or running with a tad of choke. 

 Red,

    A paper clips works well for attaching a string.  The clip goes through the throtte shutter hole for the governor spring and the other end gets the string.  The muffler is just above and to the left of the carb as you look at the carb.  The case hole for the muffler is right there so it works out the height of the throttle shutter is about the same level as the base of the muffler and its case hole.  The string can be run out of the muffler hole.  That setup should be the same for just about any SS running an HSK600.  Next time I'm in the Powerlite I'll have to update to a paperclip. 

   Started and run both with the string.  The engine sounds ok with the rev boot. 

Craftsman 3/21

Murray 3hp