Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Happy holidays every one! ... bought the toro 1028 OXE back in October, right after the very first early snow storm. Was not able to try it in snow... I added the startron stabilizer And filled up the tank with 93 octane. I tested the new baby, showed off without spinning augers... But now it's a long time unused. My question is: is it okay for the fuel to sit in the carb for such a long time? Thanks!

Additives are put into the gasoline after it is formulated. The formulation determines the octane level of the gasoline. The additives are required by engine manufacturers to remove the small amounts of combustion byproducts that can be deposited in the combustion chambers and the valves. The additive package is independent of octane level. In other words, the additive package is identical for 87 octane gasoline and 93 octane gasoline. The 93 octane gasoline does not have more "stuff" than 87 octane gasoline.

niper99,

   The link is to Briggs marketing info.  There are no test results, no data sheets, nothing about how the product works.  It’s all claims that you can find on hundreds of gas additive products.  There is nothing there to back their claims only claims.

 

   You have their product on-hand and it’s easy enough to get two clean cups.  Put some mixed additive in the cup with 20-30 drops of water and see what happens.  Put gas and water in another cup with no additive and see if there is any difference after a few days to a week. 

 

Borat,

   Remember those SeaFoam tests?  The other day I was cleaning up a bench and came across test the containers with SeaFoam and another that had Sta-bil.  Two of the SeaFram containers still had liquid SeaFoam.  The cellar is dry and a surprise it never dried out.  The Sta-bil was evaporated and stuck to the cup.  It would do the same in a gas tank or carb. 

    The SeaFoam did not evaporate.  If someone wanted a product that did not work and did not work for a long time SeaFoam would be a superior product.

   For whatever SeaFoam dosen’t do it may have lubricating properties and help small particles pass through holes and passageways.  It might be as valuable as Mystery oil or adding a few drops of oil to a tank of gas.

I still say "nah...". No one is talking about the actual engreediance mixture that creates it as a stabilizer! All I read is one big promis that it can handle all... Fact is, that every one knows from what FUEL is made of... And we also understand the physics of it, so we trust that expansive liquid and we use them. Vs. stabilizing is unknown and in the complete darkness, and go search around and find out that every brand uses more and more Fancy marketing advertisements. Let me ask you a question, when your hot and thirsty you want orange juice, right? Why?, because you KNOW the properties of oranges and you understand WHY it will help you!! Got my point?

Believing in additives is a lot like religion.   Don't ask the hard questions, don't challenge the unbelievable.  Just lay down your money and trust that ye shall be delivered!

I personally don't  care if people want to use "mechanic in can, magic elixirs and miracle cures".  That's their choice.  However, I do have a problem with people touting the effectiveness of these wonders without one iota of substantiation.   It's misleading to say the least. 

Don't you just love it when an inexperienced person asks for information on how to clean a carb and half a dozen guys recommend their magic elixir of choice?   No guidance on how to disassemble a carb, clean the jets and galleries etc.  Just spray some of this miracle fluid in the carb and that will fix things......  If that doesn't work, show the carb the elixir's container so that it understands what it's up against.  If that doesn't straighten things out, reach for the stuff the world has been keeping from the Russians.  You know, the stuff that soooo good that if the Ruskies get it, it will upset the balance of global power..... Yeah, that stuff.......

Yea... at least borat is on my side…

But honestly, I did believe my dealer and I got the “magic” additive.

My goal is; To learn the basic insides of OPW so I can batter operate it and maintain it.

Regarding the octane debate, I got here a 95% knowledge.

But as far as stabilizer, I’m even MORE CONFUSED! Why? Keep on reading:

This is from B&S site; http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engines/support/frequently-asked-questions/B%20and%20S%20Fresh%20Start%20Fuel%20Stabilizer%20-%20Features%20and%20Benefits/

Eliminates the need for end-of-season fuel draining. Not only is the draining of fuel an environmental concern but also keeping your fuel system wet with fuel prevents rubber seals and gaskets from drying out. Whether storing your fuel in the tank or in a container, it absolutely needs Fresh Start!  

- - - - - - - - -

Got that?

They are clearly saying that running the carburetor “dry” “will” cause damage to the rubber seals and gaskets!!

Questions here:

1)      Will a dry carb VOID manufacture Warrantee?!

2)      Since they use the word “prevents” and not “may prevent” is a indication of a “For sure damage”; if so, why aren’t they list it properly under the warning paragraph in the owners manual?   

3)      Why in the world is draining of fuel an environmental concern? Is it more of a concern as an oil change??

4)      When a product can’t be prescribed normal and to the point, (like additives) advertisement of it is in need of bringing up negative concerns to use the human guilt feelings as a tool to up the sales…

I’m waiting for answers…

lm not saying its a "FIX" to anything....what lm saying is its HELPS pervent stale fuel....which in turn causes no starts for customers and big bills to repair..... and the average customer doesnt know how to drian there out there machine when it becomes stale...nor are there intrested in ripping there carb apart to clean it... when they have no clue in how to do so...  and your claim as to it not working has no backing whats so ever other than your personal opinion......briggs has just a little bit more expierence than all of us... and there recomending it to be used because they dont want there customer buying a brand new machine and the first season its sits a peroid of time for it not start..because that just buts a bad taste in peoples mouth... and there most likey to return the unit or not buy a briggs product in the future.... and briggs is putting it in all there new mowers fuel caps... there not doing that to sell stabilizers... its to pervent stale fuel and unhappy customers.

and my opinion on stabilizers is based on servicing 300 units/year for the last 10 years...not just on 5 or 6 machines i have of my own... in my opinion for the cost of stabilizer for the hole year which for most people would cost about $10.... it just doesnt make sense not to use it.... because lm yet to see anybody have something negative about stabilizer yet...and your NOT going to see the stabilizer working becuase theres nothing see it keeps fuel fresh and helps maintian the octance rating so your not gonna see anything happening... other than your snowblower starts everytime...

I've read more than a few accounts of people adding stabilizer to their fuel and still having trouble getting their machine to start/run right.  I, on the other hand don't use stabilizer in any of my fuel and all of my stuff starts and runs fine.  So, from my perspective and likely that of many others, fuel additives is just another way to get people to spend their hard earned money needlessly.   

Just because B&S endorse a product, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work.  B&S recommend Mobil 1 5W30 for my Kool Bore snow thrower engine and it eats it at an alarming rate.  I switched to a convention 5W30 high mileage and oil consumption is down.  Not eliminated but certainly less.   

Most fuel additives are nothing more than a gimmick.  Some may provide fuel stabilization for a while but even if it does, it will not cure bad fuel management. 

Here's something to try.  Take two containers of the same fuel and add stabilizer to one container only.  Ensure that both are completely full and tightly sealed.  Leave them for the same period of time, as long as you want.  Take them out and test them to see what condition the fuel is in.  Let us know how that turns out.

If a person doesn't have the wits to completely fill their fuel tanks for storage, they likely won't have the brains to buy and add fuel stabilizer either. 

Ok I guess i will put my 2 cents in.


Personally i drain the fuel out of both the tank and the carb on all my OPE when the season for that equipment is over.  I also do an oil change at the same time.  If the OPE has a metal gas tank i give it a spritz wd40 just to coat the inside of the tank.  I then replace the cap and leave it alone. I also pull the spark plug and put a couple of squirts of motor oil in the cylinder and pull it over a few times leaving the engine at TDC on compression stroke, i then replace the spark plug and put it away for the season.


During the summer months I use enough gasoline that it never get a chance to get stale, however in the winter my fuel may sit for months without getting used.  I do treat my winter fuel with stabil and have never had a problem with any of my winter OPE.  I cant say that it is doing anything good or bad I just know that my engines always start when I need them to.

Since i carefully go over my snow blower before i put it away at the end of the season, I never even put fuel in it unless snow is falling.  I don't see any need to have fuel in it because I am 99.9% certain that it will start and run properly when it needs to.

I store my 69 camaro for the winter and it has always been stored with a full tank of stabil treated fuel and has never not started in the spring.

Ni per99,

      Doing that many machines a year you must fall onto many dead engines with carb bowls that have pushbutton drains.   A simpleton can take care of his carb with a push button drain.

 

      The pushbutton bowl s I collect go on machines I fix-up to sell.   A pushbutton kit is available for very little.  I got four once and converted spare bowls to pushbuttons.   Many people I sell to are first time buyers of a snowblowers and don’t have a clue about maintenance on any OPE.  I give every buyer a printout of my “Guide to Eternal Happiness” which details what to do about gas for the season and storage (Don’t depend on additives).  

 

     This year the machines I sold all come with a year startup guarantee.   I tell them to use fresh gas, don’t depend on stabilizers and prep your machine when done for the season or leave gas in and start it occasionally.     

I never said that I don't believe in stabilizer, all I wanted to point out is the fact that the stabilizers have some critical Missing info. For example: every one agrees that gasoline work for a engine, but not every one agrees that stabilizer is doing anything at all. I'm personly using it cus I'm new to ope. But the mistery is flashing a red light in my brain about the honisty of it