Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

For single stage users, can these be used on end of driveway hard chunks? I hear you can break it up first with a shovel but seems there would still be hard chunks. Would it beat up the machine? I live in New England and because of several different factors I have to compromise and the single stage Toro 621 would be my best compromise right now. I have a driveway that is a little over 2 cars long and do a run of about 10 yards by the mailbox all EOD and clear out an area going to the deck in back on one side and for the oil man on the other that would both be over grass one about 10 yards long and the other about 15 yards long. Have you ever done EOD with one of these.

I have a Toro 418 it had a hard time handling the hard chunks at the EOD so I had to break out the 2 stager, although the 621 is a bit larger and powerful so it might do a little better.  If you keep up with the snow and don't let if freeze overnight you should be okay.  I understand you need to make a compromise and if your situation is purchasing new then there are 2 stages available in the same price range (i.e.; Snow-Tek 920404).  I would suggest looking at a 2 stage in the same price range, you wouldn't want buyers remorse when your using a SS when you could've bought a 2 stage for the same price.

if you live in an area that gets a lot of snow and e.o.d. accumulations are an issue, a two stage is likely your best bet.  Better to have a machine that can do the most difficult job effectively.   I used nothing but two stage machines for going on 25 years.  Always got the job done but I also did a lot of shoveling of too.  Small accumulations of snow just isn't worth hauling out the big two stages machine.  A rink shovel or SS machine is often a better choice.

First off, it's always easier to spend someone else's money, but.....

Get both a single stage and a two stage.

Buy them used and it shouldn't break the bank. Take your time and maybe just buy one now and wait for a deal on the other one. It's possible you might find that whatever unit you buy now will do the job for you.

Two drawbacks I think of other than the expenditure:

1. Storage for two machines.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. There's a good chance you will end up with both a four cycle engine and a two cycle engine so you will need two gas cans.

I would get a 21" single stage, the most capable one with decent power and best ergonomics you can afford.  The Toro 621 is an awesome machine, despite people's reservation about Chinese engines.  Toro will stand behind their products and you won't find Toro badging someone else's snowblowers.  A Toro is a Toro and nothing else. 

A snowblower is a long term use equipment so make sure you get something you are happy with and never have remorse that you should spend more.  These are more useful than most people think.  EOD can be tough on them, break them down with a spade to the consistency that a single stage can ingest,  just make sure you don't try to throw chunks of frozen sheet ice, they will and bend the auger.  Plus, this projectile is very dangerous to people and property.  You hear and know when you are beating up the machine too hard with the chunks.  For 2 years, I've used a tiny Toro Powerlite and a spade on a double car wide x 50 feet driveway, this took quite a while.  Then I got a Honda HS621 and this was perfect size for most applications.  With a good spade and the HS621, EOD was no problem, smart technique and patience is key.  Also getting out there frequently and dealing with the EOD so they stay manageable and doesn't overwhelm the machine or the operator.

Spend $50 and get a good snow scoop to try on the EOD.  Works well for me.  I like the scoops with the ergonomic handles, like this one: http://www.acecalumet.com/snowtool.html

You should be able to find them at your local hardware store - I've even seen them at my local WallyWorld.

Maybe this might help put things in perspective...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI-AFIA56yo&feature=related

That video shows how difficult the first pass into the EOD can be for both SS and 2 stage machines. They should have done one more pass showing how both perform when taking a smaller bite - like 1/2 to 3/4 of the bucket width. That would have tightened up the gap a bit between the two machines. You can't beat a 2 stage for EOD slop but the SS shows that it can tackle the job but at a much slower pace and with a lot more effort. The guy working the SS machine could have done a better job by slowing down a bit and allowing the paddles to process the snow. Also, using a shovel to knock down/chop up the pile would have made things a lot easier for him as well - that's how it's done in the real world.

That video is not an apples to apples comparison.  Although Ariens pointed out both machines can be bought for $600 machines, and they insists it's a fair comparison.  Geez, a Mini Cooper wouldn't fare too well carrying a sofa as compared to a Ford F150, even if they were the same price.  The single stage is out of its elements in deep snow compared to the 2 stage snowblower.  And that is all that video is about.  On the later part of the video, the male operator of the SS purposedly slowed down when the snow was 8 inches or less.  Hmm...  If he knew what he was doing and actually made an effort, he would have reached the end about the same time as the 2 stage.  I guess he was being thoughtful not to blast the female operator with snow in case he did catch up to her.  :)

Put that SS in an actual homeowner environment and things will look different.  Maneuverability, ease of use, and compact size are some of the things you appreciate when you're behind the handle bars.

I guess Ariens could have staged that comparison better.  There's so many things wrong with it, but for the uninformed prospective snowblower buyer, Ariens have made their point. 

croftwny wrote:
That's old hat. 

It's abundantly clear that it's an Arien's commercial and the guy on the SS machine is dogging it.   Not hardly a fair comparison. 

No one is saying that an SS machine will do what a two stage machine is capable of.  However, it will perform better than what that video indicates.   I have a Toro 221Q two stroke with the engine rpms properly set.  It will embarrass the SS machine in that video. 

    The video does not seem to be any big conspiracy.  It gives a fairly accurate portrayal of the difference between the two machines based on my experience with 2450’s and CCR2000’s. 

 

    The guy is struggling with the EOD and doing quite a bit of pushing once clear of the EOD.  On the sections where the snow is lower than the SS’s buck top he’s still doing quite a bit of pushing.  It’s much better than shoveling.  He got the job done and that would be enough for many people.  Many would describe that as “I have no problem”.  For others it would be too much effort. 

 

   Knee_Biter say he has “no problem with large amounts of EOD”.  He a bit north of me and on average gets more snow.  The 2450’s I’ve used have big problems handling EOD here requiring much more work than what the guy in the video is doing.  How can it be KB says it’s “no problem”?  Maybe for him that amount of work is a trivial issue.  For me I want the experience the women in the video is having, mostly guiding the machine along.

 

   Every storm here I start out with a single stage clearing out to the garage.  It’s no problem.  I’m fresh and some pushing there is ok.  But it gets old quickly when I use it for the rest of the area in bigger snow greater than 3-4 inches and especially the EOD. 

 

    If you don’t mind doing a lot of pushing and struggling an SS is fine.  They’re easy to get out and use, simpler maintenance, back up fast, and easy to store.  Putting up with a little effort to get the good points is worth it to many.  At least for me the price of new SS’s is off the map.  A better value to me would be a small or mid-level two stage.

   The initial post asked about chunks and described his clearing area. EOD chunks would be a big problem for an SS.  The driveway is pretty small so some effort there with an SS would not be so much of a big deal.  The EOD section would get old quick unless you don’t mind like KB.  The paths would be a problem also.  They would be somewhat ok when the ground is frozen as the machine would bounce along with uneven ground but for the beginning and end of winter you would be tearing up lawn.