Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
|
mml4
 
Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544
![]()
|
 |
Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Original Message Feb 5, 2005 8:17 am |
|
These are the sounds issued forth from my beloved Tecumseh engines equipped with fixed Jets. I don't own one but my friend does on a machine I recomended and he constantly rags me about it. In an effort to get him off my back I have researched the following and these are the results: 1) The replacement carb for a medium frame Tecumseh is 632334A ( this is a part # that replaces a disontinued part but the blow up diagram of the replacement shows an adjustable main jet. Therefore I ASSUME it is adjustable. 2) The carburetor repair kit for this model is 632347 I was able to secure a blowup diagram of this carb and the list of parts in the repair kit. It APPEARS all of the main jet parts are present in the kit.I NEED VERIFICATION If this includes the needle and the jet. If one were to remove the fixed jet from the current carb which I believe is the green plastic tube held in by O-rings and replace it with the adjustable jet and needle from the #632347 repair kit would it work? Could you retrofit the new bowl with the adjustable assembly or would you have to buy a new bowl? If anybody could verify or correct my assumptions I would be most appreciative. Marc Just for the record -theHonda GX series engine on my power washer made the same spit, sputter,cough,blemph sounds due to it's fixed jet carb. Honda has addressed this problem by producing a line of altitude related jets. Another words if you want to richen up a Honda fixed jet carb parts are available. The carb will still be fixed jet but at a richer setting.
This message was modified Feb 5, 2005 by mml4
SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
|
Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
![]()
|
 |
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #33 Feb 13, 2005 4:46 pm |
|
Richie Chris while you are on the HP carb thing, why the He-- does my Tech on my ariens claim it is 8.5 hp. I went into Tech. sites last year and could find nothing. it has a model number the same as the standard snow king 8 hp. Ariens specs say 8.5 but no marking on the engine .. Model 8524 in this case is synonimous with 8.5hp with a 24 inch width snow box. (i know u know that but for someone unfamiliar, figured I would make it clearer. Ben07 P.s. Richie, no you cannot trade me carbs. by the way looked at a toro think it was an 82?le, might be diff than yours, (i can't look to long, I get attached) 750 on sale HD. quite impressive machine (that joy stick worked well, couldn,t find any of those traction unlock things though, but i was only there for a sec.
Hi Ben,
Your question regarding your Tecumseh engine is basically the same I had when doing research on my engine. All OPE engine ratings are all fudged and you can't take them at face value. If you look at the power curve charts on these engines, you'll notice none run close to their maximum HP rated RPM. Even my engine was 300 RPM's below it. Depending on the RPM the factory sets the engine at, impacts on the actual HP it delivers. There is usually a low side and a high side that would be considered operating RPM for any given engine, and the difference can easily be 300 RPM's. If you look at the power charts, this RPM variation can easily equal 3/4 in either direction or more. I actually have a Brigg's & Stratton 8.5 HP engine on my Chipper/Shredder. I can tell you that this engine screams when run at operating RPM. When the weather warms up a bit, I'm going to tach it and see how fast they have it running at. I can tell you one thing, my ears never lie and it is running way higher than 3,300 RPM's. If I'm not mistaken, I've learned that Briggs & Stratton is involved in a class action lawsuit because of this engine rating practice. In fact, if I was able to find someone that could Dyno my Tecumseh engine and was able to prove my engine isn't putting out what it should, I would go right to an attorney about it. Contacting the engine manufacturers only seemed to raise more questions than it answered. Believe me, there is a dirty little secret going on behind the scene not only with the engine companies, but with the OPE manufacturers that place them on their equipment.
Richie
|
jubol
Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #34 Feb 13, 2005 5:00 pm |
|
  Richie,  You remind me of what a good knife is!! You go right to the heart and your "SHARP" ! ! I think the OPE makers on HP are blowing smoke also!!! Fred 
Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower, MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP Self Prop Lawn Mower, Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis 2000
|
Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #35 Feb 13, 2005 5:49 pm |
|
Richie, You remind me of what a good knife is!! You go right to the heart and your "SHARP" ! ! I think the OPE makers on HP are blowing smoke also!!! Fred Hi Fred, I appreciate that comment, thank you . I'm no different than anyone else on this forum. I spend good money on OPE and when I come across these engine output power curve charts only to find that my 8 HP engine is not putting out that much HP, which in my mind I paid for an 8 HP, well, I've got a problem with that. Add to the fact, as Ben mentioned, he tried to find specifications for his 8.5 HP Tecumseh engine, yet his research determines it's an 8 HP. Well, I say these engine companies are really pushing their luck these days. They had better get it into their little heads that the consumer is armed with the internet, not to mention forums such as this where we can all compare notes. What good is it for an engine to be rated at a certain HP if they are NEVER run that high. Snowblowers and tractors and such are designed to run at a fixed RPM or operating RPM. THAT is the RPM the engines should be rated, real world conditions and RPM and NOT some fictitious off the scale RPM that is determined under laboratory conditions. I'm really getting sick of these manufacturers selling the same engine yet rate it at numerous different HP ratings and prices. I think Sears/Craftman is the worst of all, and I call that fraud at some level. When I see walk-behind lawn mowers rated at something like 7 HP, it really makes you wonder how out of control it has gotten. A doubt a single blade mower actually requires more than 3 HP to do the job. They are always trying to find better ways to pull the wool over our eyes with their marketing and hype crap. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we are reliving decades ago, back when the automotive manufacturers were in the HP race between each other. You are now seeing it in the OPE industry.
This message was modified Feb 13, 2005 by Richie
Richie
|
Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #38 Feb 13, 2005 8:27 pm |
|
there was a class action against a well known compressor maker a year or so ago. this co. made craftsman compressors also. they were rating the compressors at peak hp not hp at there regular cycle. a friend of mine received a letter in the mail and was awarded a choice of 1 of 5 differents tools from this co. or a small cash refund. if enough people complain about the engines there will be a similar type thing i bet Well, I really don't require a dynamometer to tell me that none of the engines on my OPE are producing the rated HP at the factory set engine speed. Those engine performance charts show that without question, no matter what brand engine you have. Whether it be Briggs, Tecumseh, even Honda. It amazes me they even have the "brass" to put it in writing for all to see. If the manufacturers want to sell you a piece of OPE with a 9 HP sticker on it, it should be putting out the rated HP at the governed factory set RPM. If they want to start selling them by the rated torque, do so as previously stated.
Richie
|
Richie
Bring On The White Stuff
Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #40 Feb 13, 2005 10:59 pm |
|
Hi there Bob,Yes, you are correct and thank you for bringing that important point up. Still, I consider it a despicable advertising practice. Using this LawnBoy ad to make my point, and why I'm making such a big deal about all of this, the consumer believes they are buying a 6.5 hp lawnmower and paying good money for it. If you take the time to read the fine print, well, it's as you pointed out. From this ad, it appears LawnBoy plays on both sides of the fence. On one side they are telling you you're getting a very potent walk-behind mower, yet they are stating in the fine print it's a farce. I don't recall seeing this disclaimer on any of my higher hp OPE with a Tecumseh engine on it. LawnBoy has a slight conscience.. . .  |  | MSRP:
$339.00 - $459.00
| | | • | | 6.5 hp Easy Start Tecumseh® Engine* | | • | | Push, Variable Speed, and Sens-a-Speed™ Self-Propel System | | • | | 21" Steel Deck | | • | | Compact Storage | | • | | Exclusive Features Designed to Fit You | | • | | Outstanding Ease of Use Features | | • | | 3-n-1 System | | • | | 2-Year Complete Coverage Warranty |
|
* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.
This message was modified Feb 13, 2005 by Richie
Richie
|
Ben07
The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #41 Feb 14, 2005 12:39 am |
|
Hi Richie To quote you and why I'm making such a big deal about all of this, the consumer believes they are buying a (blankety blank) I don't think you are making a big deal out of it at all. Your just investigating a complicated issue. Lot of stuff involved that is neither white or black. It's gray. Needs to be understood if your interested. I think you would be quite surprised on the number of viewers following your issues. Nice point on the Lawnboy post. I think you got lot of interest following along, and you will get counter points posted, lot of time they are just actually helping you get to the bottom of it, (playing the devils advocate thing) I believe and I know you know the prev post on the testing standard was a devil's advocate help thing. Sure sometimes your gonna get some who may or may not know more on the subject, or just are irritated and don't think it is important to get that deep into it. They can voice their opinion, and then go out and buy a "Blankety Blank." because that is about how much they know about what they are actually buying. Maybe close to nothing. At least that's the way I'm lookin at it. You go guy, don't have to knock yourself out, just stay steady, one piece at a time. Appreciate your insight and investigation Ben07 PS all the lawn boys from bout early 70's up to the newer 4 cycle (d-400, d-600, F series, Duraforce) were designed to work in the neighborhood 0f 2800 to 3100 rpm. When I say designed, I think they always tried to make their operating range close to the peak output, (not 100 percent certain on the duraforce as never rebuilt one of them yet ) when they would exceed that they would say in their literature in the case of a three and 1/2 hp it would say 3.5+ (that plus thing started with the F series, and believe me it don't mean plus a tenth of a hp, they are strong running engines, I'd bet they are closer to 5 )so if they take a 6.5 that has a rated peak at say 3800 RPM then there would be less at the 3100, which is exactly one of your points. (and this is a little better area to make your point as there is no gearing involved, the blade speed is 1 for 1 with the rpm of the engine, when your dealing with the Snow blower engines, the overall issue gets clouded by gearing involvement etc. So it is easier for the manufacturer to do a spin on what actually is happening. Sorry if that's too deep for anyone.
This message was modified Feb 14, 2005 by Ben07
Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps
|
mml4
Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544
![]()
|
|
|
Re: Spit, Sputter, Cough,Blemph
Reply #42 Feb 14, 2005 3:15 am |
|
Hi Guys- Been mulling over the question of hp ratings for a few days as this thread has developed and wonder if we really want our engines turning at max hp (rpm) all the time. Certainly we don't use our auto engines at max hp when we are going 30mph. If most of the time my blower will do a satisfactory job at 90% of it's rated hp. and then when I hit the EOD the governor kicks in and allows for the development of max hp I have no problem. Do we really want the wear associated with running at max hp. all the time? The other issue of course is are we really being charged for something that is there anyway when we buy the higher hp. model of the same displacement?Auto engines of the same displacement with the same heads etc. have been rated at different hp. by changing the carb or ignition or "chip" or exhaust manifold or distributor as long as I can remember. You don't need me to explain to you it's a matter of marketing. But in a way we as consumers benefit. I am looking to purchase a unit for my son and took a look at the Simplicity line. They offer two nice units built on the same 24 inch frame. One is a 9hp. and the other is a 10hp. The difference in MSRP is $200. I assume the two engines are the same displacement Briggs with different tuning . The more expensive unit offers as standard equiptment other features such as light, handwarmers etc. along with the "larger engine". My point is how much more would that unit cost if the engine was a completely different model? The manufacturers I believe would limit the # of hp choices available because the cost of producing so many "different" models is not warranted by the size of the market . If they can't increase hp through tuning then we aren't going to have the number of choices we now enjoy. Would you want to have to choose between an 8hp and 13hp with nothing in the middle when you go to buy your next machine? Someone PLEASE send some snow to Long Island, Marc
SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
|
|
|
