Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

These are the sounds issued forth from my beloved Tecumseh engines equipped with fixed Jets. I don't own one but my friend does on a machine I recomended and he constantly rags me about it. In an effort to get him off my back I have researched the following and these are the results:

1) The replacement carb for a medium frame Tecumseh is 632334A ( this is a part # that replaces a disontinued part but the blow up diagram of the replacement shows an adjustable main jet. Therefore I ASSUME it is adjustable.

2) The carburetor repair kit for this model is 632347 

I was able to secure a blowup diagram of this carb and the list of parts in the repair kit. It APPEARS all of the main jet parts are present in the kit.I NEED VERIFICATION If this includes the needle and the jet. 

If one were to remove the fixed jet from the current carb which I believe is the green plastic tube held in by O-rings and replace it with the adjustable jet and needle from the #632347 repair kit would it work? Could you retrofit the new bowl with the adjustable assembly or would you have to buy a new bowl?

If anybody could verify or correct my assumptions I would be most appreciative.

Marc

Just for the record -theHonda GX series engine on my power washer made the same spit, sputter,cough,blemph sounds due to it's fixed jet carb. Honda has addressed this problem by producing a line of altitude related jets. Another words if you want to richen up a Honda fixed jet carb parts are available. The carb will still be fixed jet but at a richer setting.

Hi there Marc,

The carburetor that you reference has two types of jetting.  Naturally one version is for pre-EPA, the other is for later version engines that are EPA compliant.  My schematic shows (2) different main nozzles as previously described but with the same part number #40.  I even contacted M&D on this and asked if carburetor 632334A comes with the adjustable main nozzle or fixed.  They would not answer the question WITHOUT having the actual engine model and Spec number for the motor.  As you can see, even with the part numbers, and depending on whom you try to purchase these components from, it can still be frustrating.

The green tubes held in by the O-rings MAY actually be called an Emollition tube.  I too had this same idea you had, but just decided not to monkey with my original carb in the event a problem came up.  Unless the carb kit comes with a replacement tube (Emollition tube??) I don't think it can simply be removed with nothing in its place.

As for the Honda engines, I have a Troy-bilt 2,5oo PSI pressure washer with a 5 HP OHV Honda engine on it.  Mine also surges a great deal and then it'll suddenly correct itself.  The problem with ANY of these engines, whether on a snowblower or pressure washer, these tools cannot be used while surging, especially a snowblower.  One way or another, I'm getting to the bottom of it.

All I can say about reverting the carbs, the one on my snowblower is working perfectly, and although with that machine, the surging I originally experienced was in 14 degree temperatures.  I put about 2 hours on it since I added the new carb, and I have not been able to get it to surge or have any issues at all.  Only when I can use it in the same 14 degree temps, will I know for a certainty if the EPA carburetors actually caused the surging as well.  The only thing I am sure of is a poorly adjusted or built carb will never give you a smooth running engine.

Hi Rich! 

Interesting that the dealer would not give you any hard info. without your spec #. I suspect they might be "fraidy" scared of getting in trouble with the carb police for selling parts to defeat Federal Regs. Everytime I go into a shop and talk to the parts people I get the runarround on carb. issues.

If you need the spec # off a Tecumseh with an adjustable jet (medium frame) HMSK80 145555OUH should work.

Maybe " Lint",Tman or Snowshoveler(Mr. or Miss). will be able to answer some of these questions. Not looking to get anyone in hot water but I sure would like to know! 

Sure does look like part #40 on the diagram holds the key to the kingdom. As far as I'm concerned this is the best kept secret since the A-bomb.

Marc

Richie -

Just re read your post. If you drop the bowl on the modern non-adjustable carb does the green tube remain in the carb body or does it come out with the bowl? 

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Richie-

Wondering if you remove the green tube if the adjustable will mate up with the hole that receives the green tube. This of course is my fervent wish. 

When you drop the bowl on the fixed jet carb and look at the bottom do you see a brass needle? That would be very encouraging.

Marc

Ps- I also looked at those two carb tools for the Tec. as well as the carb manual. I have an old medium frame repair manual with a carb section.  Let me know if you think the carb manual is worth it as well as the tools. 

mml4 wrote:

I can't be sure it'll work that way.  My new carb has this same tube, only it appeared to be brass in color rather than a plastic tube sticking up into the throat of the carb.  As for my original fixed jet carb, I never opened the bowl on it, so I can't say.  If you find it is necessary to answer your question, I'll open it up for you and check it.  As for your friends Tecumseh making all these noises and sputters, I hope this is a new snowblower because if it isn't, I'd have him do a full rebuild on it and make sure he removes the welch plug inside the carb and confirm those holes (I believe 3 of them) are fully cleared and clean.  That welch plug area is something that tends to get missed by someone not fully qualified to rebuild them and is usually the primary reason the engine won't idle if blocked up.

Richie wrote:
"Emulsion:  a suspension of small globules of one liquid in a second liquid with which the frst will not mix" - for example oil in vinegar.

The use of the word is technically incorrect in referring to a gasoline carburetor. In the emulsion tube the fuel droplets mix with air to make a frothy blend that atomizes better in the intake tract.

BTW, I just searched dictionary.com for "emulsion tube" and it asked me if I really meant "demolition derby"......

John

JohnEDavies wrote:
"Emulsion:  a suspension of small globules of one liquid in a second liquid with which the frst will not mix" - for example oil in vinegar.

The use of the word is technically incorrect in referring to a gasoline carburetor. In the emulsion tube the fuel droplets mix with air to make a frothy blend that atomizes better in the intake tract.

BTW, I just searched dictionary.com for "emulsion tube" and it asked me if I really meant "demolition derby"......

John




I'm just glad to hear you used a dictionary, I was almost worried about you.

Have seen it spelled "emolition"

Exactly the reason I said emulsion with the ???.  I've read some trouble shooting on carbs, and this tube is sometimes referred to as "emulsion tube"   For whatever reason, none of my parts views even show this component.  In any event, this is why I mentioned to Marc that the carburetor may not function correctly if removed.   How do I refer to this component? Believe it or not, before I posted the first response to Marc, I too checked the dictionary  The reason for the "????"

"BTW, I just searched dictionary.com for "emulsion tube" and it asked me if I really meant "demolition derby".

Jonn, that did give me a laugh

mml4 wrote:

Marc, the reason I originally checked the dictionary was because I saw it spelled like, "Emolltion"  Even my dictionary said, I need to learn how to spell.  So I used the spelling in the dictionary as, Emulsion.  Again, we need a Smiley showing him scratching his little head

Too funny, now everyone is off checking their exploded carburetor views and going through every dictionary they have. 

Main Entry: emul·sion
Pronunciation: i-'m&l-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin emulsion-, emulsio, from Latin emulgEre to milk out, from e- + mulgEre to milk; akin to Old English melcan to milk, Greek amelgein
1 a : a system (as fat in milk) consisting of a liquid dispersed with or without an emulsifier in an immiscible liquid usually in droplets of larger than colloidal size b : the state of such a system
2 : SUSPENSION 2b(3); especially : a suspension of a sensitive silver salt or a mixture of silver halides in a viscous medium (as a gelatin solution) forming a coating on photographic plates, film, or paper

n.

1.

The act of softening or relaxing; relaxation.

Source mw.com

What this has to do with a carb, I have no idea.

Richie-

 Friends machine is new last season and runs great. Just suffers from the "fixed jet blues".

My point on the green tube is that I believe it takes the place of the adjustable jet . It's that part that you refer to as the brass tube going into the carb throat. It's the picture that Marty posts from time to time telling folks to clean the two holes with the bread wire. I may be wrong in calling it the adjustable jet but I have heard it referrd to as that in conversations with others. My hope is you pull the green tube and either refit the existing new style bowl with the the adjustable assembly  or purchase a bowl that will accept the adjustable assembly and that this will work.

If the adjustable mates up with the hole that the green tube was removed from I think you would have to leave the o-ring in the hole to prevent an air leak. The one thing that will tell if this scheme will work is to know if the green tube and the adjustable tube are the same length. Being that the bowls are the same depth and the carb housings are the same  there is a shot this will work.  

Are you sure the green tube is called an emolition tube.? I thought the emolition tube was the tube cast into the Tec. carb body that couldn't be removed. I remember it as the part you couldn't see but could hear rattling if you shook the carb next to your ear.

Marc

I thought Marty was talking about the bowl nut?

mml4 wrote:

Hi Mints!

The bowl nut is to my understanding part of the main jet assembly. That tube with the holes in it holds a needle valve that adjusts from the bottom. Kind of like the spray bar assembly on a model airplane engine.

Marc

nope it wont work...

the plastic tube that nobody can spell the name of is easily removed.as are the 2 o rings,that hold it in place.however the old style carb has a brass tube thats pressed in place.have never been able to get one out.

the adjustable high speed nozzle (thats on the bottom of the bowl) has a long thread and it runs up in the carb and mates in the brass tube.

the new  non adjustable also mates with the plastic tube but the lengths are different and the thread is not the same ( i think).

now that you are all dissapointed and cranky about it maybee i will just tell you how to repair the new emission style carb.

say please...

later chris 

ha ha the fix is in now.

now you all understand that the PLASTIC tube is where the fuel starts bubbling up into the throat of the carb...its that whole venturi deal that we learned in school.

the fuel is supposed to be evenly atomized and the engine is supposed to run at different temps and speeds.

thats a whole lot to ask from an engine with this style carb...BECAUSE  it must meet emission regulations.you guys in california are well used to this story.

so what do we do with the engine or the carb.

its basically running in a lean condition most of the time ,add some below 0 temps and its really lean.

no power and surging and hunting all over the place...

got you hooked yet

later chris 

we have to richen it up somehow...

those of you that are familiar with my teachings will already be on to the cure for the carb.

we cant change a bunch of stuff  ,its illeagle (sp).so it must look like its not been tampered with.

we dont want the emission police catching us now do we.

so we know that the plastic tube has some holes in it and the bowl retaining bolt may have 1 or more holes in it depending on hp

now the fuel has to flow through the hole and up into the venturi.correct.

we also know that these parts have been gummed up with some bad gas so we have to clean everyone of them .now some of the holes might be plugged a bit and we might just have to ream them out with a fine wire cleaner usually found in the tip cleaners with the acetylene torch gear.

everyone understand now,be carefull not to ream the holes to much or your engine will be to RICH.

later chris

Hi Chris,

Hi Chris-

Man  am I glad your computer got fixed! Thank you so much for the explanation. 

As always one explanation leads to another question. You mention that depending on hp the bowl nut on the new style carbs have a different number of holes. If we ordered the bowl assembly for a larger hp medium frame engine and put it on the low hp medium frame engine could we pick up some free ponys?

In a recent thread someone explored the hp ratings of Tec. engines and shared with us a conversation he had with a tech at Tecumseh.He was told  the difference in hp between engines of the same displacement was achieved only through jetting.

We brothers of the snow flake really  those "free" ponys,

Marc

you could yes ,

but i was speaking in general

covering more than one engine from 5 to 11 or 12 horsepower.

the ratings seem a little fudged to me anyway.

i shortblocked a snowblower and the same shortblock fits everything from an 8 to an 11 horse.

so whats the diff,carb, head ,cylinder head gasket and possibly iginition but i dont think so yet.

will check on it more.

i do know that the shortblock came with 2 headgaskets ,one being a bit thicker than the other.

later chris  

Hi folks,

hey Richie.

once you get the hang of all those carbs .

you will need to make sure all the ope in your neighborhood is working good.

once you have that done then you are going to have to come north ...i have a workbench with your name on it.

later chris

snowshoveler wrote:

Chris,

You have a great job keeping OPE working at their best.  Nothing would make me happier than to work on these great machines, especially if I'm allowed to tweak  Thank you.

 hi Richie ...

you tweak all you  want...we will pay extra for that.

i think your clean spot on the bench just got some work put on it.

are you on your way yet.

our update courses start soon and you might as well come with us to them.

later chris

Chris,

It'll take me a while to get there.  I decided to drive up there riding on my snowblower  I couldn't handle being apart from my big red sweet heart. 

Richie ,  hold out for a paid lunch break,  cause I can see you ain't gonn take one anyhow.  too busy  tweaking..

Regards  Dude

Ben07 

Ben07 wrote:
Hi there Ben,
You may be correct, but Chris said they pay extra for tweaking.  So I'll look at it as a wash   I figured I might be able to pick at Chris's food while he is busy studying the Microfiche cards trying to answer all our HP/torque questions.  See, I have it all figured out. 

Richie wrote:

Yeah Chris thanks for doing that  I appreciate it.  (it's a guy thing,  by the way are girls allowed to run SB)  na  !!!

(powder-puff Snow blowin,  don sound right)

anonymous

Richie Chris  while you are on the HP carb thing,  why the He-- does my Tech on my ariens claim it is 8.5 hp.  I went into Tech. sites last year and could find nothing.  it has a model number the same as the standard snow king 8 hp.  Ariens specs say 8.5 but no marking on the engine ..  Model 8524 in this case is synonimous with 8.5hp with a 24 inch width snow box.  (i know u know that but for someone unfamiliar, figured I would make it clearer.

Ben07

P.s.  Richie, no you cannot trade me carbs.

by the way looked at a toro think it was an 82?le, might be diff than yours, (i can't look to long, I get attached)

750 on sale HD.  quite impressive machine  (that joy stick worked well, couldn,t find any of those traction unlock things though,   but i was only there for a sec.

Ben07 wrote:

Hi Ben,

 Richie,

      You remind me of what a good knife is!!

You go right to the heart and your "SHARP" ! !

I think the OPE makers on HP are blowing smoke also!!!

                                                                 Fred    

jubol wrote:

Hi Fred,

"I'm really getting sick of these manufacturers selling the same engine yet rate it at numerous different HP ratings and prices.  I think Sears/Craftman is the worst of all"

No doubt about this statement, they have been doing that for years. I'm waiting for their 8.9HP reel mower to arrive, you know, the kind with no engine.

there was a class action against a well known compressor maker a year or so ago. this co. made craftsman compressors also. they were rating the compressors at peak hp not hp at there regular cycle. a friend of mine received a letter in the mail and was awarded a choice of 1 of 5 differents tools from this co. or a small cash refund. if enough people complain about the engines there will be a similar type thing i bet

TheKneebiter wrote:

Well, I really don't require a dynamometer to tell me that none of the engines on my OPE are producing the rated HP at the factory set engine speed.  Those engine performance charts show that without question, no matter what brand engine you have.  Whether it be Briggs, Tecumseh, even Honda.  It amazes me they even have the "brass" to put it in writing for all to see.  If the manufacturers want to sell you a piece of OPE with a 9 HP sticker on it, it should be putting out the rated HP at the governed factory set RPM.  If they want to start selling them by the rated torque, do so as previously stated.

Richie,   You are quite right about actual horsepower in service being less than rated horsepower.  However, I believe all manufacturers test the same way in accordance with SAE J1940 (Small Engine Power and Torque Rating Procedure) so one should be able to compare motors fairly.  If anyone cheats on this they would expose themselves to a huge class action suit.    -Bob

Hi there Bob,

Yes, you are correct and thank you for bringing that important point up.  Still, I consider it a despicable advertising practice.  Using this LawnBoy ad to make my point, and why I'm making such a big deal about all of this, the consumer believes they are buying a 6.5 hp lawnmower and paying good money for it.  If you take the time to read the fine print, well, it's as you pointed out.  From this ad, it appears LawnBoy plays on both sides of the fence.  On one side they are telling you you're getting a very potent walk-behind mower, yet they are stating in the fine print it's a farce.  I don't recall seeing this disclaimer on any of my higher hp OPE with a Tecumseh engine on it.  LawnBoy has a slight conscience.

.

.

.

MSRP: $339.00 - $459.00 Models: Model 10683 Model 10684 Model 10685 Model 10686 Compare All Models

• 6.5 hp Easy Start Tecumseh® Engine* • Push, Variable Speed, and Sens-a-Speed™ Self-Propel System • 21" Steel Deck • Compact Storage • Exclusive Features Designed to Fit You • Outstanding Ease of Use Features • 3-n-1 System • 2-Year Complete Coverage Warranty

* This engine was manufactured and laboratory rated by the Tecumseh Power Company at 6.5 gross horsepower in accordance with SAE J1940. As configured to meet safety, emission, and operating requirements, the actual horsepower on this class of lawn mower will be significantly lower.

Hi Richie

To quote you 

and why I'm making such a big deal about all of this, the consumer believes they are buying a (blankety blank)

I don't think you are making a big deal out of it at all. Your just investigating a complicated issue. 

Lot of stuff involved that is neither white or black.  It's gray.  Needs to be understood if your interested.  I think you would be quite surprised on the number of viewers following your issues.  Nice point on the Lawnboy post. 

I think you got lot of interest following along, and you will get counter points posted, lot of time they are just actually helping you get to the bottom of it,  (playing the devils advocate thing) I believe and I know you know the prev post on the testing standard was a devil's advocate help thing. 

Sure sometimes your gonna get some who may or may not know more on the subject,  or just are irritated and don't think it is important to get that deep into it.  They can voice their opinion, and then go out and buy a "Blankety Blank." because that is about how much they know about what they are actually buying.   Maybe close to nothing.

At least that's the way I'm lookin at it.

You go guy, don't have to knock yourself out, just stay steady, one piece at a time.

Appreciate your insight and investigation

Ben07

PS all the lawn boys from bout early 70's up to the newer 4 cycle (d-400, d-600, F series, Duraforce) were designed to work in the neighborhood 0f 2800 to 3100 rpm. When I say designed, I think they always tried to make their operating range close to the peak output,  (not 100 percent certain on the duraforce as never rebuilt one of them yet )  when they would exceed that they would say in their literature in the case of a three and 1/2 hp it would say 3.5+  (that plus thing started with the F series, and believe me it don't mean plus  a tenth of a hp,  they are strong running engines,  I'd bet they are closer to 5 )so if they take a 6.5 that has a rated  peak at say 3800 RPM then there would be less at the 3100,  which is exactly one of your points.  (and this is a little better area to make your point as there is no gearing involved, the blade speed is 1 for 1 with the rpm of the engine,  when your dealing with the Snow blower engines, the overall issue gets clouded by gearing involvement etc.  So it is easier for the manufacturer to do a spin on  what actually is happening.  Sorry if that's too deep for anyone.

Hi Guys-

Been mulling over the question of hp ratings for a few days as this thread has developed and wonder if we really want our engines turning at max hp (rpm) all the time. Certainly we don't use our auto engines at max hp when we are going 30mph.

If most of the time my blower will do a satisfactory job at 90% of it's rated hp. and then when I hit the EOD the governor kicks in and allows for the development of max hp I have no problem. Do we really want the wear associated with running at max hp. all the time?

The other issue of course is are we really being charged for something that is there anyway when we buy the higher hp. model of the same displacement?Auto engines of the same displacement with the same heads etc. have been rated at different hp. by changing the carb or ignition or "chip" or exhaust manifold or distributor as long as I can remember. You don't need me to explain to you it's a matter of marketing. But in a way we as consumers benefit.

I am looking to purchase a unit for my son and took a look at the Simplicity line. They offer two nice units built on the same 24 inch frame. One is a 9hp. and the other is a 10hp. The difference in MSRP is $200. I assume the two engines are the same displacement Briggs with different tuning . The more expensive unit offers as standard equiptment other features such as light, handwarmers etc. along with the "larger engine". My point is how much more would that unit cost if the engine was a completely different model? 

 The manufacturers I believe would limit the # of hp choices available because the cost of producing so many "different" models is not warranted by the size of the market . If they can't increase hp through tuning then we aren't going to have the number of choices we now enjoy. Would you want to have to choose between an 8hp and 13hp with nothing in the middle when you go to buy your next machine?

Someone PLEASE send some snow to Long Island,

Marc

mml4 wrote:

Hi Marc,

mml4 wrote:

Hi MM14..

A car is different because you vary the speed to the load or speed you choose,  If you want to Run ia at peakRPM, on a straight say a straight road you could do it all day. However if it had a governor on it, it would not let you..  I know you know peak does not mean Red Line.

However a governor will never let one of these machines run at peak if the governor setting is at a lower RPM than peak.  The governor only tries to keep the machine from slowing down (remember I said "Try" there for the slown process") when under a load.  It also keeps the machine from turning higher than the goverened RPM.  It never shoots for more RPM.  It dumps more gas into it, but it never tries to exceede the rpm.  If you manually excede the RPM  by forcing the throttle open It will do the same as the load condition, however in reverse it will lower the throttle back.

Analagy like driving on a 65 mph highway in 4th gear, standard trans.  you come to a hill, steep  going up the hill you got to floor the accelerator to try and maintain the speed. you do that however speed drops to 40  , now even if you are able to maintain 40 you are going to heat the motor up real fast.  You have an alternative, you can downshift , using the gearing advantage bring the car back up to 65, only difference is the motor is now running at a higher rpm , closer to peak etc. 

However with the governor setting you don't have the same choice, cause it only opens the accelerator to maintain an rpm.

In the same analagy as above now with a governor in the motor,  The same thing would have happened at first the car would have dropped speed to 40 mph.  so you do a quick down shift.  you will never get the car back up to 65 mph, cause it takes more RPM's than the goverened RPM. (so you will have this big powerfull engine crawling up a hill like it's a wimp, ) 

The whole point  here is, once you put a governor on it, you got to look at it differently.  there could now be anything under that hood of that car. A weak engine to a strong engine,.  A lot of it is how much they want to charge for it,  they make a one size fits all . get their manufacturing cost advantage there and then label the engine as the price will bear. 

This can all be summarized by saying there is a fudge factor involved in how these engines are related to power caused by the way they can and are required to rate their engines.  The manufacturer takes advantage of it to reduce their manufacturing costs.  And to get into the pockets with fatter wallets.  And to help the EPA gain controll, they go to the same country clubs.

Now the assasins are coming to my house as we speak.  That's ok they can pry it out of my cool dead hands to quote C. Heston.

So after all that has been discussed on this subject  How bout we get a feel for other's opinions  Make a quick post , in agreement or not.  It would be interesting

Ben07

I could care less myself. I can look at charts and graphs and know what  I need. Even in cars it's a pain, 200HP is one car is not going to provide the same thing as 200HP in another car, too many considerating factors to throw into the mix on what you'll end up with.

That's just my personal opinion.

Let me qualify that a little bit.

Yes, I would like to see engine manufacturers have the true HP ratings of the engines, advertised. What I don't really care about is a class action law suit, I have no need for that myself. As long as the spec's are published and easily found, I'm good to go.

Actually that is what some of us are saying you may be actually getting. less choices than actually implied by the seller

A choice between 8 and a 13. (over 50 percent in BHP between the two almost identical engine. however the rasting is at  a much higher operating rpm that the machine can't run at with a governor)  Big bucks in the differences, sure some more features, which does kind of camoflague and confuse the issue,  There is still a big free percent left over for the engine charge going back to the MFG for the low cost internal slight carb differences. 

also when you run them under load and rpm, drops to peak torque RPM  and you will find that there is no where close to a 50 plus percent increase in power between them there.  So do you actually have like five choices or do you only have in essence only like two?  

Ben07

Marshall wrote:

100 percent agreement  (relavent specs)

 Richie,

How much of a HP increase did you think you got with your

 new carb on your 8HP engine??

Also, what is the part number on the carb, or is it top seceret??

                                                                       Fred   

jubol wrote:

Hi there Fred,

I think it was a great answer to his question. 

 Richie,

 Thanks for the numbers.

Also when you were at the Tulsa engine site, did you check the specs on the Tec HMSK 8, graph shows about 6.4 HP out of 8.

The 10 shows 8HP, which is about a 20% loss due to the EPA carb.

I think that your good carb got you back at least 1 HP,  maybe more, so now your 8 is at least about 7.4HP.

                                                        Fred  

jubol wrote:

Fred,

I'd have to verify the graph you are referring to, but I believe that is the one I have.  As for additional HP due to my adjustable carb, it stands to reason something good came out of it, beyond the fact it runs better, but what makes me hesitant about me commenting further is the fact these engines run at a governed speed.  For whatever it's worth, if I had to do it all over again, I'd still make the carb switch

Marshall, if you were referring to me in the way I answered Fred's previous question about HP verses the new carburetor, thanks.

I was sir, and you're welcome!

What is also fish about that tulsa site they will only give you one full graph of the hp to torque chart per category of same cube engines  I.E. are both 19.43 cubes.  so no graph on the nine.  Strange also important to notice two reference points on the graph,  operating rpm on my 8 hp is 3600, under load it can drop to 2800.  at 3600 it developes 11.5 ft pounds of torque and at the lower rpm it increases to 12.9 foot pounds.  however it looses the meaningless HP number as it decreases by like 1.25 hp  .. Torque is much more important ref  here and it is what is keeping the engine runnin under load Would be willing to bet the nine developse it's hp at a higher rpm above 3600 and it could be very well the same engine  that has the same torque at the 3600 and the 2800 rpm's  .  bore an stroke are the same cept seems they decided to write one of them in decimal and the other in SAE.  same weight to the motor etc,  everything they do always looks like a shell game. 

If it looks like a duck

an walks like a duck,

maybe it is a duck

Ben07 

What's the difference in price on the 8 & 9 HP?

Oh, you guys have a link to the 8-9-10,etc. HP engine charts?

Can't give it you exact Marshall, cause it is kind of mixed up in a hodge poge, as they do not have all the engines for sale, so you can't actually compare an hmsk 8 to an hmsk 9,  you can get a generathought though, but different engines have diff bolt-ons,  like air cleaner no aircleaner, some fixed linkage with a governor  and others no fixed linkage, say for like a go cart etc. 

But in general seems to go from like 400 to 460 in the average diff between 8 and 9  would more research to get better info,  will prob be unavail to do that  at this time    just tryin to give you a general feel etc.

(also remember you go from an 8 to a nine on a SB  an there could be hundreds of dollars diff,  but some of that is extras, like drift cutters, heated grips , lil wider auger box..

 I am not talking things like differentials 

1120 1457

Like on the ariens deluxe line the 8.5 is 1.120 dollars and the 11 is 1457  (no differential on either

Ben07 

Thanks Ben, I do appreciate it!

Well, that's not too bad if it's around 60 bucks. Even if I spent an extra 75 for a 1/2 HP, I wouldn't be upset if it's a true 1/2 HP.

Ben07 wrote:
Down shifting has less to do with horsepower and more to do with a multiplication of torque. Not anything like a govenor.

hey guys ...

all a governor is supposed to do is maintain i desired speed.

if your engine is set at 3600,the governor will try to maintain that same 3600 rpm regardless of load.if your engine drops to 2800 rpm i would say thats too much of a drop.either go down a gear or have a look at your governor settings.somthing aint quite right.

not trying to upset anyone but this is my job here and i wouldnt be happy with an 800 rpm drop.it should work better i would like to see it go no lower than 3200 for an engine speced out at 3600.

now just to mix it up a bit when i was looking at torque charts some engines are set at 3750 max rpm...yikes that scares even me.

the torque peak of all the tecumseh engines i looked up was right in the 2450 to 2550 range and it was a broad flat curve.

another interesting that i noted was cubic inches of displacement. there math is not good.

if you look at the bore and stroke ,some have smaller bore with same stroke and still have same displacement.

its not quite right to me.

there is a note in the fiche cards about pistons,you have to measure old one to get correct replacement,there is up to 1/4 inch difference in diameter on same size engines.

later chris 

You know, this I agree with whole heartedly.

I would say that if the engine is dropping that much it is either not right or you don't have enough engine for the job at hand. If an engine is constantly running in the 2800 RPM range because of the amount of snow, you either need to push less snow at a time or need more engine to handle the amount you're blowing. Snow, grass, 600 lb man in a go-cart  ,anything.

im thinking a 5lb bottle of nitros should do the trick

later chris

snowshoveler wrote:

robmints wrote:

You are correct Rob.
I was just using this example in that way to better see how no matter what happens the govenor trys to keep the RPM of the engine the same.  Some of the concepts don't get understood, and or not explained well..  cause they inter-mingle and it is confusing .   In this case I am sure it is my fault

Ben

Ok, a 600lb man on a Nitrous Go-cart, that would leave a mark.

Richie...

your workbench took a direct hit with a large amount of OPE its a mess,im so sorry.

for all i know you could be posting from under it.

if you are in there could you stick out a hand or somthing.

ill bring coffee for you in the morning...how do you prefer it built.

later chris 

Ben07 wrote:
No no no, it's called communicating thru type, I'm the worst!  

Oh yea, I think you do a great job of it too!

Marshall wrote:

It doesn't run there constantly it picks up and maintains at a higher rpm. within an instant  The drop is only noticable with a tac.  With your ear when you are running it it seem's like the govenor kicks in seamlessly and without a tac you could easily think your engine is running faster cause of the sound of the engine woking under increased throttle.   The governor hardly ever kicks on this machine cept for starting point in deep heavy stuff.  Without a tac would not know there was that much rpm loss.  so if it is not suppose to work tat way maybe I do need to do a governor rod or spring adjustment.

Ben07

Ben07 wrote:
Ben, sounds like it's doing what it should be doing to me. Somewhere I got that it was running using full torque the whole time your blowing, I thought. Maybe in that torque/HP thread?  My bad.

Marshall wrote:

Likewise

No prob Marshall.  It may be dipping lil too low on initial impact.  First thing I will try and do is put it at the center of recommender operating RPM  which is stated at 3600 plus or minus 150.  It is running at 3450 which is min but ok, and bein it is new I decided to leave it alone for awhile. so that min could affect the initial hit onthe governor assist.   Didn't spell that all out before as was  trying to save keystrokes.

Ben07

snowshoveler wrote:

Chris,

Nice of you to finally notice    I don't know who did it, but while kneeling down sweeping up under my work table, someone decided to roll a big heavy snowblower over my back   It wouldn't have been all that bad if not for the tire chains, man those things really smarts on the back of my head.  Come morning, if you'd be so kind to bring me a large coffee, light and sweet, and a few aspirins, I'd appreciate it 

Ben07 wrote: You know, you have a point. it's not beyond reason that it will free up 100 rpm's after it's broken in well.

hi Ben...

dont touch the spring...please

its a simple enough job to do but explaining it with a keyboard is somthing else for me.

you have a tecumseh engine .. if its less than 20 years then this is it

with the heater box removed from engine

you will be able to see the governor arm and linkage.

there is an arm with 2 rods .

 1going to the carb and 

1 rod going to the throttle control or box.

this arm has a small 1/4 inch bolt in it.where it fastens to the governor.

adjustment is as follows.

with engine off...

place throttle in fast position.

loosen the 1/4 inch bolt and pull the arm and the little lever away from the engine block.

hold in this position

you should notice the throttle open all the way.

tighten the lil bolt and reassemble the heat shield.start the engine and then set your max speed.

like i said its a simple job and if i showed you ,you would have no problem...

however.. words sometimes are confusing.

later chris 

  

Thx I printed that.  Cause I can't even get to that snow blower.  LOL  we got so much rain and warm weather here in Pittsburgh, I wolld be afraid to ramp it down out of my shed, The Ground is sopping wet. it would prob sink in the mud. .  If It was snow, I could really had some enjoyable SB-ing.

That ground is so mushy " I am half tempted to pull it out and Rototille the garden with it."

Thx Again Ben07 

Snowshoveler  Chris

Cloging Tech Carbs

Bein you posted some of the problems with the dissimilar metals in carb

Somethin I found related to clogging of Tech engines carbs, might be worth mentioning. I'm sure you have seen it, and someone probably already covered it.

 

When the carb starts to get partially clogged, and still runs, and operator keeps priming tryin to start a clogged carb, you get a back pressure up the priming line and it squirts back, and even the vapors that come up into it over time can cause this. (granted the primer only pushes air into the carb then pushes some gas thru the venturi,  but on this clogged one there was a split in the hose at the bottom low end, covered split with my finger, pumper bulb and gas squirted back out around my finger)  It deteriorates the hose, crumbling effect, get all those little pieces of hard to dissolve, rubber , or neopreme/ whatever in the float  bowl, working their way in to the orifices.There may be a screen there? Can't remember now, but it gets thru, also think it can seep thru another back area or vent hole.  The reason, I think is it is not fuel compatable hose.  Then you have to remove the motor shroud to get up to the primer connection to run new hose,(( the one I did was actually pretty much shot far up the hose) that can be a time consuming unpleasant chore, when the motor is mounted to the machine. 

I can never find fuel compatable hose with that small of an O.D., cause it has to have that small of an OD to fit over the carborator lip to attach.  So what I do if I have to replace the whole hose is put the larger O.D. fuel compatable hose from the primer bulb, almost to the carb connection, then piece in the smaller stuff.  That way if it goes again I don't have to remove the flywheel shroud etc.    What I will do on my newer machine is not go thru that trouble, just cut the hose from carb connection up to where it goes under the shroud and replace , I don't know every couple years or something, as most of the deterioration is closer to the carb. 

Does that sound like a good idea or a waste of time,  it would be about a ten second job,  (not many of them around)   Could install one of those lil in-line fuel filters or porus fiber in the line before the adapter that would be used at the pieced in area.

Question is do they have fuel type hose in that O.D. (I know it is out there, I just can never find anyone who carries it.) ,  and is it only Tech. That doesn't use it, (Maybe I just ran into some bad hose, wasn't my machine I was working on, as a guess 10 yrs old.)  Never had those type hoses crumble on me in like say a lawnboy that is 20 years old.  Their small hoses seem little stiffer material and sort of transparent.

 

Ben07