Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I would like to install a CLARENCE kit on two more snow blowers. One of them is a no-brainer since there's allot of clearance.I can easily get my finger between the impeller and housing (MTD). The other one, new to me is a snapper 1132 (2005 series). What would be the clearance to necessitate adding a kit.

Hi, I did once install the clarence kit, and It broke my gear prematurely why? because the clearance that company engineer conceive is there for a reason, clarence kit throws the snow further but everything in the snowblower works harder then it should usely, It like using a 3/8 adaptor socket on a 1/4 inch ratchet imagine?? So I dont recommend that clarence impeller kit, ask your corner snowblower authorized mechanic and he will tell the same thing. Good Luck Denis

Denis wrote:
Denis, 

are you saying that installing the Clarance impeller kit broke the Auger gear?

My Simplicity has approx. 1/8" to 3/16" of clearance from the ends of the impeller blades to the housing.  That's pretty much the way it came from the factory.  I would assume that as the machine wears, the clearance will increase due to gravel from road maintenance material.  It the machine goes to 1/4" or more, I'd probably look at putting a Clarence kit in.  However, can't see that happening anytime soon because my SS machines do 90% of the work.   

   Hirschallan,

If it ain't broke.... don't fix it........

Carlb, I can say that it didn't help at all, its like shoveling wet snow, it's heavy my back! assuming that wet snow weight with a clearance 1/16 to 3/32... gear case works harder!

Denis wrote:
Reducing the clearance by using an impeller kit could put more strain on the belt.  And cause the engine to work harder under certain conditions. 
But the kit would have no adverse effect on the gear box.  The kit fits on the impeller not on the augers not that,  that would have any effect either.  If the kit was fit to tight to the housing.
I would create a drag and resistance to the impeller spinning.  That would needlessly sap power from the engine.  With the engine trying to spin the impeller which was tight in the housing.
The belt would be under a lot more tension and could stretch out and or break.  But again that would have no effect on the gear box.  Wet snow is obviously heavy,  that is why a person has
to slow down their forward speed and keep the RPM up.  Your back may care how heavy the snow is.  But a snowblower doesn't. 
The only thing gear boxes don't like.  Are objects that get jammed in the augers and between the housing.  But that is what sheer bolts are there for.

If the clearance distance was a factor in your gear box going bad.  Then in theory, borat's clearance of an 1/8" to 3/16" should be causing more damage to his gear box.  Than someone else's
gear box is receiving if their impeller clearance is a 1/4" or more.  That reasoning just isn't valid. 
Having said all that.  There is a mild learning curve to using a blower with a new impeller kit installed.  When and if the engine starts to bog down, slow down.

jrtrebor wrote: Jrtrebor,

That is exactly the post that i was going to write but i was too lazy to do all that typing.  I couldn't agree more with you spot on assessment. 

Ok guys let see it another way: wet snow enter the auger with the clarence kit installed wet snow try to reach out by forcing the belt ok, so the snow doesnt come out like fluffy, so snow become packed in the auger case, the impeller shaft is driving the auger what happen then? the brass gear is getting to tight I mean by that it's logical the gear force

Denis wrote:
Wouldn't even know where to start to answer this.  Except to say no not right, to everything that was said.

I think what Denis is trying to say is that the tighter clearance impeller will experience more load with wet snow.  i think we all agree to that.  His point about the Clarence kit putting more load on the gear box is more to do with the machine being required to force more snow through the system than it would be capable of without the kit installed.  Rather than bypassing some of the snow, the kit forces the impeller to move it all.   Kind of like a car with narrow tires spinning them easily but put on a set of slicks and the load to the entire drive system is increased substantially due to the available traction.  The Clarence kit gives the snow moving part of the machine  a similar effect by increasing load.   I'm not certain that the additional load would have that much of an effect on the gearbox unless the components therein were border line and ready to let go. 

If i could put on a simulation video of the thing, I could probaly be more precise on how wet snow could damage the gear with clarence kit installed, in a long term.

Denis wrote:
A person could also put on a simulation video.  Of how to damage a gear box and how to put excessive load on all of the blower components.  By by using to fast a forward speed for the
snow conditions.  Or by plunging into an EOD pile that has chunks of frozen snow and ice.
The impeller kit does one thing.  It improves the efficiency of the impeller.  It creates a smaller gap between the blades and the housing.  So that more of the snow that is in front of the blade is
expelled out the chute on the blades first pass by the chute opening.  Can that put more load on the engine and belt than the way it came from the factory, yes.  But would that load be any greater than than trying to blow 12" of wet snow in third gear instead of 2nd or first gear?  No I don't believe it would.  I guess my point is that with or without an impeller kit a person can damage blower components by using it incorrectly.  And you see people, or hear people doing it all the time.  As I said there is a small learning curve when using a blower with a kit installed.
A person can easily shorten the life of blower components by using it incorrectly. 

The gear box issue.
Putting an excessive load on the impeller has no effect on the gear box.
The impeller and gear box spin off the same shaft.  So when the impeller slows down due to a load so does the gear box.  You can't blow a gear box because of a heavy load on the impeller.
I would go so far as to say that if you have the correct OEM shear pins installed and the augers are free on the shaft.  You can't blow a gear box period.  All the gear box does is spin the augers
which moves the snow horizontally.  That is not a tough task for a screw auger.  What happens to often is that people get the idea that a snowblower is half snow plow and half snowblower.
Anytime you feed the blower housing more snow than is has the capacity to process.  Your putting an excessive load on it.  Just listen to the engine. 
Blowing deep wet snow is like cutting long wet grass. 

jrtrebor wrote:

+1

Have to agree as well regarding the gear box.  For some reason, I was thinking the additional impeller load would contribute additional gearbox strain.  I was putting the horse before the cart. 

I suspect that Denis' gearbox was likely ready to let go and just happened to do so after putting on the impeller kit. 

Is it possible to install the kit improperly balanced that could cause flexing of the impeller shaft that would lead to deflection of the worm gear inside the gear box?  

jrtrebor wrote:
Again,

I have to agree with Jetrebor 100%.  All of the additional load is put on the impeller, belts and blower housing bearing.  The torque is being passed through the impeller via the shaft to the gear box.  Overloading the impeller will either stall the engine or slow the engine making the auger either spin slower or stop completely.  If the impeller can not process the snow fast enough you are going to fast.  If the impeller is clogging then you would need to stop to clear it first.  In any case I have been clearancing my impellers for years using either steel plates welded in, or running a bead of weld on the edge of the impeller and then fitting it for 1/16" clearance on the blower housing and have never broken a gear box or anything for that matter.   I have blown slush, wet snow and dry snow with no problems and have never had the chute plug once. 

I wish i had video of my old large frame Snapper blowing slush more than 25' last year like a fire hose.

On my current machine which is an 11hp 26" mid 80's Cub Cadet the 14" impeller has less than 1/16" clearance on all four blades.

Carl

Ok guys, I'm probaly freaking on the gear case heheheh, like Borat mentionned the worm gear was a little bit old enough to strip, so here we go, let it snow, have an happy winter all

I have posted this many times on both forums.  I purchased my Ariens 1128dle new.

The first season we got his with heavy wet snow that quickly turned to rain. My Ariens turned into a sausage maker.  Slush would fall out of the chute like a Sweet Italian sausage and then plug.

  I was discusted with my machine and ready to sell it. I put the Clarence impeller kit in and it became a new machine.

 It goes through the wettest of snow, slush, and even throws water like a cannon.  Without this kit I would have sold my machine.

  My Honda's throw like that right out of the factory and no need for the kit.

 I have also installed them on many other machines and have never had any problems.

Can anyone tell me how thick the rubber is in the Clarence kit? I am going to try to make a homemade version of the kit. I have some 1/8" thick rubber sheet that I'm planning to use. If that's too thin, I can use 2 layers. That, plus some metal brackets (the flat ones with holes in them at the hardware store), and some bolts, and I should be in business. Do people typically install these, including the drilling,  with the impeller still in the machine? I assume you remove the chute, of course. It seems like it might be easier to do it in place, rather than removing the augers and impeller from the machine. This is for an Ariens ST824. Thanks.

1/8 might be a little thin,  you don't want something too flexible.  Also if the gap is pretty wide you would want some pretty stiff.
Yes the mod should be done with the impeller in the machine and in most cases it is easier to remove the chute.

Mine was done with the impeller in and the chute off.  I don't know the exact size of the parts.

First thing I did was remove the gearbox assembly and grind down some of the weld on the inside of the top of the chute.  There was a little lip on top that stuck down.  Then I put it back together and found the sweet spot at 90 degrees from the chute where the drill would be straight down and the fan blade would be closest to the barrel.

That thing is built like a tank.  No sure what you've got for an engine but by the way that thing looks, it seems it could handle some serious power. 

Good job on the Clarence kit.  Do the rubber paddles contact the the impeller housing or did you leave a bit of clearance?  I'd be tempted to put them right snug against the housing.

They look like they will wear like the paddles on a single stage. I agree, that is one serious snow machine - Nice job shryp!

The pictures show the original HM-80, that threw a rod on like the third time I used it and was replaced by an 11HP GX340 clone.  That used too much gas so when I tore it down to repaint and replace the gearbox seals I put a 7HP 212CC Predator on it.  If it is underpowered I'll go back to the 11HP as that was unstoppable.

(This is only a 24" Ariens)

The first time I did it I put the rubber on kind of tight, but second one I did I just lightly butted them up.  I don't think it is necessary to make them super tight.  I am still waiting for snow to see how it performs now.  I never did take any pictures of it repainted.

Were you running the big engine at full rpm all the time? 

With that kind of power, you could probably cut back on the revs to about 2500 and still be in the best torque range.  You'll save fuel, and still toss snow respectably.  When you want to dazzle the locals, you can crank it up.

borat wrote:
Hmm, never thought of that.  Yea, I was running full blast unless I was idling it while doing something else.

you could probably throttle it back 25 to 30% and still get decent performance.  You could also put a larger auger/impeller pulley on the engine and have the same impeller speed at 3/4 throttle and still over 8hp available and have a monster blower at full throttle when needed.

Shryp wrote:
Try it and let us know how it works out for you.

I used a tach to find the best rpm for torque (2800 rpm I think) on the engine for my log splitter.  I put a line on the engine near the throttle lever to mark the position for best torque.  Not so much to save fuel but just to run the machine with considerably less engine noise.  It's an 8 h.p. B&S  Industrial Plus and seems to make more than sufficient power at reduced rpms to operate the hydraulics.  The only sacrifice with going to lower rpm is cycle time.  Not a big deal because the machine is fairly fast at full throttle. 

Your right about running at a lower RPM.  Last winter with that same engine on my 32" Ariens.  I would sometimes just kind of putt down the sidewalk at about half throttle +.  While blowing 6 or so inches of snow in second or third gear.  A very relaxing way to blow snow.

If the Chonda clone is as strong as a genuine GX340, that's a lot of ponies.  On a machine with a 28" or less bucket, there's an excess of power on tap.  Running at 60% of 3600 rpm would be 2160 which would be near peak torque range.  If that rpm translates to 60% of 11 h.p. it works out to approx. 6.6 h.p.  and the torque would much more than an engine rated at 6 or 7 h.p. at 3600 rpm.   Lower engine speed, quieter operation, lots of torque, less fuel consumption, sounds like a good a good deal all the way around if one can resist the urge to launch the big arch and hurl for distance.  

Well, I currently have the 6.5-7HP Predator on it.  I have enough parts to put another blower together I think so I might either put the 11 back on it or switch them around.  The pulley is slightly larger already.

borat wrote:
Therein lies the problem.

That would be pretty cool. Have the larger engine spinning more slowly, with a larger engine pulley, so less noise, but still enough torque, and the same auger speed. Then, when you need to send the snow into the next county, go to full throttle. Makes me think of a diesel generator, humming along at 1800 RPM, vs a gas one thrashing away at 3600. I wonder at point you'd overwhelm and break the belt.

Interestingly, my MTD has 2 parallel pulleys for the augers, I think, then 1 for the drive system. I wonder if that could make it more tolerant of added power. It might simply blow the auger gearbox or something, though, as it's just an aluminum gearbox. Some way to change the impeller/auger ratio, to speed the impeller up, without having the augers whirling away, might be interesting. Would help get more distance, without adding more stress to the auger gearbox.