Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Well I've spent a lot of time researching new blowers and came very close to bring home the JD 1330se today but got cold feet after reading about the slipping drive issues. I'd be very interested to hear any long term reviews on this unit as it appears unchanged since 2010. I do have a JD dealer 10 miles from home so prep and support should be better than a Lowes units? Also if there is another blower 30ish inches I should consider please let me know. I live in northern MI with a 150' drive see a fair amount of snow. I dont mind paying a premium for quality if it makes for years of trouble free operation. Thanks for your input

If you really want quality and dont mind paying for it, get a Honda or Yamaha.  with tracks if you have tough snow to do - see all the posts here re tracks.

I would get a Husqvarna 30 inch  which has hydrostatic drive , as good as Honda, and built in the USA.

Thanks, I did look very closely at the 30" Husqvarna and really wanted to like that machine but unfortunately the ergonomics were very uncomfortable for me. Levers seemed too high and no angled handles made it uncomfortable... I broke my collar bone recently so this is a consideration. The reason I was interested in the Simplicity/Deere 30" was the lower and angled levers seemed better in the dealer anyway? Please keep the suggestions coming.

If money is no object I dont think you can beat a Honda, another good choice if you can go with a 28" width is the Toro 1128OXE!

Personally I would go with Ariens. They have A professional series 28", 32" and 36". If you have hills or gravel driveway they have a Pro Track Series . My current Ariens is 15 years old. ST 924. NEVER EVER LET ME DOWN. My belts I replaced once and my disk I replaced once in the 15 years service. I love them. If this thing ever dies on me i' m going with a Pro track 28. Many times I  have to blow close to 1000 Feet to get to the main road in 2 plus feet snow for the plows never come when we need them the most. The Pro series have auto steering- No triggers- with 14+ HP you can create your own snow storm.

Hi there did you consider the new 2011-12 ARIENS ST28DLE (926038) Professional Series?...I just purchased this model machine for $ 1800.00 plus taxes in Canada and was also considering the John Deere 1330. For a couple of hundred dollars I would definitely consider the ARIENS ST28DLE Pro model. The ST28DLE Pro machine comes standard with a 420 cc Briggs & Stratton Polar Force engine having 21 ft./lbs. of torque and 14.39 HP . This engine also comes with a crankshaft balancer, cast iron cylinder sleeve and a forged crankshaft.  Personally, I would focus on the heavy duty points of a snow blower. The John Deere 1130 and 1330 machine have a short 3"-4" auger shaft sticking out from their gear box from each side. Then to compensate, a support bracket is installed on top of the gear case and screwed underneath the blower housing. This is to prevent the gearbox from twisting during action. The Pro 28,32 & 36 models machine from ARIENS have a full length auger shaft that goes from onside to another, eliminating the bracket support.  The Automatic Traction Control on the ARIENS….it is also a really good feature that is offered. There is a little resistance when you turn, but almost unnoticeable. If you stick to a smaller machine like a 28” housing, it is very easy to manoeuvre than a 36” machine. Also, I happened to take a closer look at the ATC system on the ARIENS Professional series. It is a really cool design. It is a Hilliard Auto-Lok differential system. It has two female internal splines bore on each side of the gear/differential assembly for the axle shaft to enter. Then the Auto-Lok acts like tension device to release the resistance when you turn and yet still have traction on both wheels. John Deere 1330SE model also offers the same feature under a different marketing name called the "Easy Steer"...and it is also a Hilliard product. However, weaker on the design side by John Deere...let me explain.  Now the way it is integrated into the snow machine's design is another issue all together. I have closely looked at both the ARIENS ST28DLE and JD 1130/1330SE Auto-Lok Differential from Hilliard. The main difference is that the ARIENS is using a spur gear around the Auto-Lok differential unit and a pinion to drive the axle for  both wheels. The spur gear surface is a little over 1" wide and the pinion even more. Perhaps, 1.250" of surface for the pinion. I would have to open and measure to get exact size, but it’s about that. This surface contact increases the stability, rigidity and decrease the vibration of the axle. John Deere doesn't have a spur gear around the Hilliard Auto-Lok unit and neither a pinion. They are using a sprocket and chain system to drive the axle. The sprocket is fitted unto the Auto-Lok and expected to give you that Easy Steer you looking for. Unfortunately, it will not perform as expected. You can read the other threads from the other members on this topic.  You will have this machine for a very long time an it worth spending an extra few bucks for a more reliable machine.  ARIENS is made right here in North America and service parts readily available anywhere. Good Luck and regards, Scopes01

I appreciate everyones input but just to clarify...Cost is a major consideration for me. I would put my budget max at 2k but if a sturdy/dependable/powerful machine could be had for $1500-$1700 well, why not? Dr Woof, I would love a Honda 928WAS in the garage but at twice the cost of the others I'm considering, this may be an investment for another time. Also, while not a huge concern, I'm 50+ miles from the nearest Honda dealer. BUT if the others I'm considering Simplicity/Deere/Snapper 30" are asking for trouble than NOW is the time for me to change directions. I'm entirely frustrated with all the clueless sales people I've talked to and the lack of real world reviews available. I maintain two residential properties(elderly neighbor) and we see an average snowfall of 80"+ in my area. Am I asking for trouble with the Deere 1330SE easy-steer Briggs machine?

Scopes01, your input in the other threads has me considering the Pro 28. I'm not a fan of the chute controls or the ergonomics of the machine but could look past this in favor of pure functionality. Lately I've heard horror stories about the lousy prep on these machines from Home Depot so I had looked to other Manufactures.

OmFlyer wrote:
I have the same observation on the Deere too.  The bucket was heavy to tip up, which is something you may want to make sure it doesn't make it more difficult to operate.

When Simplcity/Snapper/JD machines initially switched from Tecumseh over to B&S engines there was a problem with snow getting into the auger and wheel drive belt area causing the the machine to lose drive traction when snow would fall onto the engine.  They issued a fix for that problem years ago and should no longer be an issue.  I did my own fix by putting a rubber cushion between the engine and the belt cover.  No problems since. 

I've had the Simplicity for five seasons now and it's been an excellent machine.   It might not be the very best snow blower sold but for the money it was one of the best values.  High quality and low price is a very rare combination.  I'm talking about a 2005 model that was built in the Wisconsin plant.  I have no idea of how well built they are today.  Doesn't look like too much has changed.  Still has the heavy duty cast iron gear box and the chassis still seems as stout.   If the price is right, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one.  Regardless of what you buy, grease the augers.  The amount of grease put in at the plant is sometimes minuscule.

OmFlyer wrote:
I would say your first decision is to between a track or wheel type.  Tracks are hard to maneuver in storage, and a bit harder when blowing, but they really get thru the tough stuff and are good on inclined surfaces.  Then, decide on width.  Wide models of course take up more room and dont fit thru narrow spaces (like doors or between the car and the wall or narrow walks when blowing).  I have owned a 26 and a 28 inch and blower and never felt inclined to go larger.  And if you take partial cuts any advantage of width is lost.  As per my previous posts, I do not like the JD 1330 easy steer system but have no experience with others.  Excluding the Honda, I would be interested in looking at the Husqvarna and Ariens tracked blowers if I was looking for a new one.  Also, I find the hydro drive to be a definite plus, as well as adjustable scraper heigth.  The electric spout controls do make life easier, but only time will tell as to reliabilty.  Never had heated grips - just a frill I think and not a factor to affect the buying decision - get some good gloves if the new one doesnt have em.

Good questions; Pancake flat property and some tight storage maneuvering have me looking at wheeled blowers. I used an old 5hp - 26" Craftsman here for years which seemed to manage well 85% of the time. The 15% that it could not handle was wet snow and EOD. So regarding width, 26-30" seems right because I am maintaining two properties and would favor getting the job done a little quicker with some additional width. Dr Woof, I'm sorry if I missed your specific post, but what was your experience with the JD easy steer system or is your dislike based on design integration? Thanks again

OmFlyer wrote:

EOD "end of driveway "

Dr_Woof wrote:

Found it! This is troubling... Has any else experienced this with the 1330? Could be a deal breaker.

Hi John...don't base your choice regarding the ARIENS machine from users who bought them at Home Depot. First of all, I would never purchase a snowblower at Home Depot. They don't have the know how and proper after sale training needed to make sure that your machine will be running properly after delivery. Secondly, they are more expensive...I purchased my ARIENS ST28DLE machine at an authorized ARIENS/GRAVELY master dealer and paid $1800.00. Meanwhile, Home Depot was selling them online for $2159.00 with no support. Dealers, have the training and proper know how on how to prepare a machine properly with replacments parts. I don't want to sway you towards ARIENS...its just that I did my homework and checked out most of the models mentioned in these thread. The best bang for the buck is the defainetly the Pro 28 machine...Honda is good machine..but is it really worth almost double the price...what to they have more?...they don't even have a straight auger shaft from side to side...Before you decide...go see the machines for yourself..By the way, we had 5" of snow about 1 week ago...it was heavy and really wet...and it threw it with no problem...I was used to an old Toro from 1978...and would not have been able to blow wet snow at all...Good luck! scopes01

Yo Scopes01:

Just for your information, I bought my Toro 221QE single stage machine from Home Depot for $599.00 plus 13%  tax = $676.87 out the door.  The exact same machine at the local Toro gouger was selling for a non-negotiable $999.00 plus 13% = $1128.87 out the door.  That's a substantial difference of $452.00 that stayed in my pocket. 

As you can readily see, not all dealerships are the same.  The arrogance and hubris of the local dealership is beyond comprehension.  Their service and parts pricing is as ridiculous as their prices for equipment.  How they stay in business is beyond me?     I can only assume that people who are either too lazy to do their homework or blinded by brand loyalty and dealership schmoozing keep the gougers in business. 

borat wrote:
LOL  So...they pay PREMIUM prices from the dealer so that.....they have the "privilege" of paying PREMIUM prices when it goes in for repairs.  What is wrong here?  Actually, if you get a good blower to start with and have just a bit of mechanical ability you probably wont ever have to take it in for repairs.  And you can even redo the mistakes made by the Home Depot peeps.  My JD 826 was bought new in 1982 and has never been away from home - for anything.  Still runs along like new, tho I rebearinged it a few years ago.  Still like the Honda 928 better, but the 826 outperformed the JD 1330.

Based on the recommendations the Ariens Pro 28 seems excellent, but back ordered around here at the moment. Dr Woof and Others, Do you feel the poor performance issue with the Deere 1330 was attributed to the Easy-Steer feature? I'm wondering if the similar Snapper/Simplicity models without the Hillard Auto-lok would have the same control issues? If the tried and true trigger release works on the Snapper/Simplicity this still may be a viable option.

Musta been the easy steer system on the JD 1330.  In loose snow, it tended to wander left and right (the steering was very "loose") but was not hard to control.  In a partial cut thru denser snow, it forcefully veered  into the deep snow on the unblown side.  Looked like it was due to the uneven resistance on the bucket front producing its own steering direction, which required to be balanced by me on the handlebars - and that was very hard to do.  Another poster points out that all these Hilliard systems are not installed the same way so this may not be a problem for all models - but, not having experience with other models, I can not comment on that.

My neighbour bought a new John Deere  JD1330  With Easy-Steer in January 2011.,  he kept it  only  few weeks, did  (3)  8-12 inch snowstorms with it. He said  that he was fighting with it all the time, to

get it  to go where he wanted.   He returned it and got a full refund.   After trying out  my son's Husqvarna/ Craftsman 27 inch 52993 , and later my Husqvarna  30 inch 16530 EXL,  He bought a Husqvarna 14527.

You have to ensure the Easy Steer mechanism is fully engaged or disengaged when using it.  I use the easy steer function only to move the machine around.  Never when actually working.  After disengaging the drive to maneuver the machine you have to ensure that it fully re-engages before going back to throwing snow.  If used properly, it works well and the machine is no more difficult to manage than any other machine that has both wheels driving when moving snow.  What's important is to ensure the drive engagement mechanism has the proper lubrication.  Too thick of a grease will either slow the re-engagement or not allow it to engage at all in real cold weather.  I've got grease on mine and I'm going to be cleaning it off and will be trying motor oil.  That's what's recommended for lubing the shaft that the friction wheel slides across.  Considering that the easy steer operates in a similar manner, oil should be fine there as well.  

Excellent info guys, thanks for all the input! I'll see whats available locally and report back on my purchase.

Well, now I'm literally loosing sleep over this decision....

Based on everyones input I have narrowed down my options to 3 or 4

Please weigh in on the list, snow is coming and I sold my old blowers...

In no particular order

1. Ariens Pro 28 – ST28DLE (out of stock everywhere)

2. Toro Power Max – 1128OXE

3. Husqvarna Hydro - 1830EXL

4. Honda Hydro- 928WAS (Break the bank and pi$$ off the wife)

Thanks Again!

Then buy a Honda.  There is nothing wrong with a John Deere snowblower but it will never be as maintenance free as a HONDA.  If cost does not dissuade you from owning the best, then get the HONDA.  The other machine I'd consider falls between the two, a Husqvarna Track Drive with a Hydrostatic Transmission, they run about a thousand dollrs less than the Honda. 

Man, The 1330SE is getting no love in this thread.  I'm gonna have to sing a power ballad to mine, or something.

Stainless wrote:
Maybe that's a sign to move on.  The 1330SE got really bad press in 2009 for the disc slip issue.

aa335 wrote:
Not just the JD 1330SE.  Just about every machine that had a B&S snow engine on it and didn't have the improved belt cover suffered from disc slip. 

I just finished cleaning all of the grease off of the coupler for the easy steer on my machine.  It was -3F here this morning and the lever for the easy steer didn't want to move.  Too much frozen grease.  Now that it's got oil instead of grease for lubrication, it's working much better.   I also had a frozen deflector cable.  Must be from water that was in there from last year.  I haven't used the Simplicity yet this season and it's stored indoors.  I  pumped a bunch of WD-40 into the cable and freed it up then put a good dollop of grease on the upward facing end at the deflector then put a good gob of grease inside the rubber boot that covers it.  Hopefully that will help keep it from freezing for a while.

Found one. Picking it up Saturday! Ariens Pro 28 – ST28DLE

Congratulations, you made an awesome choice and won't regret it....

By the way, make sure to drop the oil after the first five hours of use. Because this is special break-in oil formulated for new engines. I first flushed my oil out with regular 5W30 oil and then re-filled again with “Mobil 1” 5W30 Synthetic oil. If your snowblower will sleep outside during the cold winter months then go with 0W30 Synthetic oil. Make sure to verify the oil in the gearbox too. It should be fine…but you never know. You can verify this by removing the oil screw on top of gearbox (read owner’s manual to identify proper screw) and using a 1/8 diameter rod not too long but long enough so it doesn’t fall into the gearbox to measure amount of oil. You should have about 2.380" to 2.630" measured from the bottom of the inside top plate to the level of the red oil L3 Synthetic severe duty gear oil. Very important, DO NOT OVER-TORQUE this screw as it is very easy to strip the thread on the cover. It should be torqued at 80lbs per inch not feet. Please post some feedback after use…Good luck! Scopes01…

 

Here are two links below to the owner’s & parts manual of your 2011-12 Ariens ST28DLE (926038) snowblower:

 

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/04337400B_ENG.pdf

 

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/04337500A.pdf

Big thanks to everyone who posted here! Especially; Dr Woof, your experience and input was excellent! Borat, your advice will be followed. Scopes, I really appreciate your attention to all details. Awesome! Snow is in the forecast for Friday! Thanks Again, John

WOOOOOOOF!

That's a freaking coyote Woofy!    

We have them behind our house as well as lynx and "real" wolves.  I found a deer carcass in the back a few weeks ago so I put up a game camera near it.  Got daylight pictures of a lynx sitting on the kill and a coyote desperately wanting to get to it but not at the risk of a scrap with a rather large cat.   A day or two later, I got a picture of a nice wolf that likely brought the deer down.  The pictures were taken in broad daylight and only a two minute walk from our house. 

They like to be scratched in the right places

Now that's something you definitely don't want in your back yard.  Cougar have been spotted in the area and tracks confirmed by the MNR but no one has actually capture/shot one.  Wolfe, lynx, coyote, and most black bears avoid humans.  Cougars are a little different.  Being a cat, they're a bit goofy and will attack anything that they think they can take down, including humans.   Here are a few pics from my game camera:

Note times taken.  These pics were taken only two minutes walking from my back door.

The lynx is near the kill but can't be seen behind the balsam on the left.  The coyote is giving it wide berth. 


Look to the left behind the tree.  You'll see the lynx eyeballing the coyote.


Partial pic of the lynx sitting on the kill.  Coyote want's to eat but doesn't want to tangle with the cat.



I suspect that this is the wolf that brought the deer down.  Deer are often struck by vehicles and injured then they head into the woods where they're easy prey.

Nice pics!  Its in Minnesota?  Thats my daughter with the cougar.  Part of her job was tracking them - says there are a LOT more of them around then most people think - they just keep a low profle.  Usually.  But......every now and then.....a jogger does go missing.

Northwestern Ontario, Lakehead area.

OmFlyer wrote:
borat wrote:
                                                                  
For those who don't know, here are some photos of the John Deere and Simplicity snow blower catalogs that illustrate the similar terminology for turning features.  I thought maybe someone would find it enlightening.


                          Here's the the John Deere 1330SE "Easy Steer" feature from their printed 2011-2012 snow blower catalog:
                   
It's the Hilliard Auto-Lok differential.  Both wheels have power                                   From the specifications chart.  Bottom of photo.
as the operator turns either left or right.  Obviously, the outer
wheel turns faster as compared to the inside wheel.  No
triggers, no engaging and disengaging.

As scopes01 has already mentioned in reply #6 above, the John Deere method of utilizing the Hilliard system is different from how Ariens utilizes it.


          Here's the Simplicity set-up, called "Easy Turn".   This is from the 2008 (left) and 2011 (right) printed snow blower catalogs:                           
   
Not a two-wheel differential; locked two-wheel drive until operator decides to pull the left         From the specifications chart.  At bottom of photo.
trigger for the above effect.               


Having seen both brands of snow blowers at dealers, I prefer the overall build, look and feel of the Simplicity models, except I distrust the electric chute functions that both brands now employ on certain models.  I think the straight-forward mechanical controls are more trustworthy.

Good clarification.

My machine has Easy Turn.  I only use it to disengage one wheel to make turning easier.  I never try to move snow with one wheel driving.  Just doesn't make sense to do so.  What I found with my Easy Turn system is that too much of the wrong type of grease will cause the engagement mechanism to resist separation and make it very difficult to get it into one wheel drive.  I have since cleaned the grease off and now use oil to lubricate it. 

Dr_Woof wrote:

A jogger maybe a good or reasonable meal but a runner is too boney to make a decent meal for the cougar. It might not even taste all that great.

With a trigger release, does it only provide a dramatic improvement in turning ease for one direction?  If the left wheel is released, I guess turning left would be quite a bit easier than turning right?

Stainless wrote:
With one wheel disengaged, it turns easily in both directions.

borat wrote:

If the left wheel is disengaged, it would seem to me that turning left would be easier than turning right.  When you're turning right, the right wheel is still receiving power, correct?

I looked at machines at HomeDepot with the one release trigger on the left side.  I never operated one of these but apparently it just releases power to the left side.    My Husqvarna and many other makes use a trigger on each side, which enables gradual turns or zero radus turns , the same in either direction.

I have a snapper 1132 which is a 2005 series machine with trigger release on the left. Even though it only releases one side it still turns either way easily

Hi guys...here is a picture below of a Hilliard Auto Lok system on an Ariens 1130DLE 921003...as you can see the axle drive is driven by a spur gear and pinion and not by a sprocket and chain system like the John Deere picture above. The spur gear is mounted on the Hilliard Auto-Lok system as you can see in the picture. This system is far more superior and easier to work with. It will keep the traction of your blower going in a straight line compared to John Deere's "Easy Steer". This picture was taken from a previous post from "goofienewfie" in Dec 2008. This differentail is similiar to the Ariens Pro 28,32, 32 & Platinum Series machines.

I've seen it mentioned that one implementation of the Auto Lok was better than another, due to gears vs chains (as I recall). I'd never seen pictures of either system. Now I have (thank you guys for posting those). But, forgive me, I'm not understanding how a chain vs a spur gear should make any difference in the operation of the differential.

The outside body of the differential is turned by the drive system. As with the open differential on my older Ariens, there are two splined outputs, one to each wheel. It would appear to me that those are the system's only connections to the outside world. The hardware inside the body of the differential (the guts that make the auto-locking magic happen) have no idea whether there is a chain on the outside, a spur gear, or a series of small but powerful hamsters with cranks :)

It has been mentioned (perhaps by you, scopes01, but I don't recall for sure) that one system (Ariens') performed better than the other (John Deere) in some testing. I have no reason to doubt the observation. But borat has talked about the lubrication on the system being important making it function properly. Is it possible that the difference was because one machine was set up better than the other?

If there's more to this that I'm not understanding, my apologies, I'd love to learn. I just don't quite understand how a chain vs a gear on the differential will make a significant difference in how the Auto-Lok performs. And it sounds like a really cool system, by the way, in theory providing the best of both worlds.

My Ariens has an open differential, which I'm looking forward to trying out. My MTD had the basic system where you can lock both wheels together, or let 1 wheel freewheel constantly; I always kept them locked together. My only concern with my differential is how much the machine will be constantly trying to pull to one side, to whichever side has snow on it, making me fight it the whole time. I am assuming that you can reduce the tendency to pull to the side by using a slower ground speed, and taking a more complete cut, so that the snow's resistance is more balanced across the width of the machine. That is, going fast, and only using 1/4 of the machine's width would make it pull to that side harder. Go slow, and almost fill the bucket, and I presume it will go straighter.

In my opinion the main difference between a spocket and chain system vs. a pinion and spur gear drive is that the gear system is much more efficient. The constant contact surfaces between the teeth of a pinion gear to the spur gear makes it such that motion is continuously steady and direct. As for the chain and sprocket similar to a drive system on a conventional bicycle is less steady because of the constant slack on the chain. Therefore, when it is applied to the Hilliard Auto-Lok system there is more play in the drive and will not have constant drive when going straight especially when there is resistance while blowing heavy snow. With optimal and continuous adjustment in reducing the chain slack , the drive will become much more efficient. However, the gear system is definitely a superior set-up. It is definitely more expensive in manufacturing costs to have instead of a chain and spockets on a snow machine. Also, we would need to take a closer look on how the Hilliard Auto-Lok is configured on the John Deere vs. Ariens'. This could also be another factor in the performance of both snow blower tractions besides the gear drive mechanisms. Here is a photo that I found of a Hilliard differential taken apart...this will give you an idea on how this unit is made and works...Take care!...scopes01

scopes01 wrote:

Nice picture and great info here. Just for clarification,what is the white color on the drive plate

borat wrote:
Thanks, borat, for this good tip.

From Stainless :

borat wrote:
If the left wheel is disengaged, it would seem to me that turning left would be easier than turning right.  When you're turning right, the right wheel is still receiving power, correct?

From borat:

Stainless wrote:
With one wheel disengaged, it turns easily in both directions.


My experience so far with my Toro 1028LXE is that I can use either the left or right trigger and turn either direction.  It's just more natural to turn left with the left trigger releasing the left wheel, and turning right with the right trigger releasing the right wheel.  I was surprised how easy it is to turn with only the inside wheel powering the machine.  It's easier in a lower gear, but, of course, no one can't whip around fast on a tighter type of turn, anyway, so it's a moot point that a lower speed is needed.  If you're just making a gradual turn of some type, then a fast speed would be fine if you use the powered inside-wheel-only to make that turn with a Simplicity, or another brand that has the same turning feature. 

I finally was able to see my first new Simplicity blowers just over a week ago at the only dealer that actually has any to look at (some near-local dealers are Simplicity dealers, but only display John Deere, since both are made by Briggs), and they are exactly 200 miles from where I live.  Too bad they're so far away, but, nonetheless I knew immediately I liked the Simplicity models  better than the John Deere models.  They only stock the 4 Pro models.  Nice blowers!  I would think the Simplicity blower would have made Dr. Woof a happy camper.

royster wrote:
With one wheel disengaged, it will turn easily in both directions.

Think I already said that. 

borat wrote:

But doesn't it turn easier in one direction than the other.

Stainless wrote:
I think he meant that if the friction disc isn't engaged and power isn't sent to one wheel.

aa335 wrote:

My experience with my Toro 1028LXE, with triggers on both sides, is that if I turn in speeds 1, 2 , or 3 on sharper turns, I can turn pretty easily with power only on the inside wheel.  It's no big deal, really.  When trying to handle a gentle turn in speeds 4, 5, or 6, I can still turn with power only on the inside wheel.  I only tried it because I was so curious about how it would work out.  But of course, with my dual trigger system, I don't ever have to worry about that inside wheel issue.  I'll just use the left trigger for left turns and the right trigger for right turns.  However, It made me not fret about blowers that only have the left-wheel release trigger.  I'm thinking of the Ariens Deluxe models and the Simplicity models with those left triggers.  In both cases, you have to stop the machine, pull the trigger, then re-engage your motion forward or backward.  To re-establish two-wheel locked drive, you stop again and the pull the trigger, then re-engage your motion forward or backward.  With the Toro and Husqvarna models, or any others with the two-trigger system, you can do the triggering on the fly--no stopping needed.  Whichever you like, you'll be okay.

Iscopes01 wrote:

In This Photo you see the problem with these Friction Wheel Drives.  The Rubber faced "Friction Wheel" is already looking like a Bald Tire on this machine. This photo shows that rubber wheel and how it is able to slide across the axle it rides on, and that powers the wheels when you squeeze the handle and it rides on the metal disc that sompne has painted grey in this case, and the friction has worn off the paint in the center where the rubber faced friction wheel rides most of the time.  That drive plate has a V-belt that comes off the engine to make it rotate and supply the power to move the snowblower.  Those sprockets with the gears and the chains are just how the friction wheel carries the power to the wheels on this machine.

The speed lever simply runs a cable that makes the rubber faced friction wheel ride across the drive plate,(on that well greased hexagonal shaft on which the rubber faced wheel rides) and when the cable makes the rubber ride on the opposite side of the drive plate, the machine is in reverse.  That rubber faced friction wheel and the drive plate it rides on is what passes for a transmission on these types of snowblowers.  That is all there is to them.  You can see how the width of the rubber would matter, just as how large the wheels are that transfer the engine power across this device.  Yet no one gives that as a specification for us to measure one brand versus another.

Bald tire?   Is there supposed to be a tread pattern on it? 

Ever looked at a new one?  They're supposed to be smooth like that.

Not to be rude but, much of what you post here shows your considerable lack of knowledge of the topics you bring up. 

Oh, and by the way, there are likely a thousand or more friction disk machines out there for every one of any other form of power transmission. 

So, despite your vehement opposition to friction disk drives, they're almost as popular as you are ill informed. 

AAAh, Borat, wrong as usual.  The statement I made was that it looked as it  obviously does, just Like a Bald Tire.  The friction from the contact of that 'bald tire' drives the machine, unless it hardens, breaks or is simply worn out.  When those thing occurs, as they Very Often Do, the machine makes the operator move it by using his or her brute strength to PUSH the 200 pound Plus machine because the failure of that rubber friction wheel prevents all power from the engine reaching the wheels of the snowblower.  Unlike you, I understand all too well how the mechanism I just accurately described works, and what happens when it Fails to Work.   If my advice were NOT Correct, explain why the snowblower manufacturers include changing that 'Friction Wheel' as Normal Expected Maintenance.  I made a low quality MTD Sears Craftsman snowblower work for 15 years, by becoming adept at changing this rubber faced friction wheel, and before that an Ariens for over a decade.  I traded up and no longer ever have to do that again.  Those thousands of people with the same PITA problem may wish to know that there is an alternative to paying the shop to do this job again and again, or doing it the way I did, by learning how.  

You seem obsessed with trying to convince others that you know something.  Here's a clue, that doesn't happen when you try to tell them I don't when they can see the very simple mechanism for themselves and discover that it is YOU who have no idea what You are talking about.  That's becasue most of them, are a tad brighter than you.

borat spewed the following:

NewYorker:

When you find yourself in a hole, it's best to put the shovel down.  You'll never dig your way out of it despite your efforts.  

I've forgotten more than you'll likely ever know. 

The more you post, the more you make that abundantly obvious.

Despite using a  snowblower with hydrostatic drive,  I still like the simple design of the friction drive, replacing the rubber drive wheel on occasion, it is a easy task.but this  doesn't  happen very often unless the machine is abused, or there is water or oil getting on the disc.

OK guys play nice. Have enough class to just drop it. It's a good thing I'm not a moderator here because neither one of you are on topic. I delete posts like those.

royster wrote:
True enough, but having had both, I really like the ability to shift easily into the infinitely variable speeds.

borat wrote:
The mechanism that makes a friction drive move a snowblower is so simple even I can explain it, as I did in that last post.  The rubber friction wheel looking as it obviously does in that photo, like a bald tire, seems to have inadvertently caused you some Great  & Terrible High Anxiety.  I promise you I never explained that to cause you to defend your perceieved inadequacy.  The post has nothing whatsoever to do with you, it is merely a simple explanation of how a machine works, as any normal person would see for themselves.  Your compulsive need to always sound off as , " The Expert "  can be treated, you should seek psychiatric help.  I'm sure they can provide some medication to help you. Or Perhaps Electro-Shock Therapy  will snap you back to reality.  I wish you luck in overcoming your affliction. Or maybe you just forgot to take your medication lately.  Keep that suicide Hotline number handy, just in case.  Don't make any rash decisions without your doctor.

Wow!

I'm impressed NY! 

You've gone from a  know-nothing mechanic to a know nothing psychiatrist! 

Put the shovel down!!!!

Dr_Woof wrote:

Yes, the hydrostatic is by far the best drive system,  I really would not want to go back to the friction disc

but  Just think how many thousands  of snowblowers  are working out there with the friction disc.  

Ariens are usually considered to be the best snowblower but they have never offered anything but the friction disc.

I owned two Craftsman machines for a total of twenty years.  Engines and friction disk drives were working as good as new when I got rid of them due to the chassis rattling apart and cracking at the welds.  Not once did I have to do anything to the friction drive system.  My present simplicity also has friction disk drive.  I've owned it for over five years now and it's been flawless other than when water would leak inside and get on the disk.  Fixed that problem by sealing the belt cover better.

What is truly annoying is when people condemn a simple, economical, reliable and proven mechanical system because they may have had a problem with theirs.   My machines have seen lots of hard work over the years, threw tons upon tons of snow and the disk drive never failed provided it was kept dry.   I'm certain that there are literally millions of disk drive system owners out there that share the same opinion as I yet, every once in a while, an "expert" has to tell us all that the system is junk.  

Friction disc drive system = simple mechanism
                                             occasional replacement due to normal wear
                                             works very well assuming operator doesn't abuse it (causing excessive wear due to not stopping before changing speeds, allowing
                                                  grease/oil/water to get on it, etc.)
                                  
Hydrostatic drive = more complex system, but easy enough to understand how it works
                               long-term reliability
                               infinitely variable speeds without stopping
                               expensive to replace if something happens to go wrong

Each to their own.

You got that right