Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

So I mixed up a fresh batch of 40:1 fuel, filled the 221QE and fired it up.   It fired on the first pull then stopped.  I primed it some more, put the choke on full and fired it up again.  It ran fine but when I took the choke off, it slowed down to about 1/3rd it's operating speed.  Put the choke back on and it revved up to what sounded like normal operating speed.   I kept the choke on and let it run like that for a minute or so thinking the fuel system needs to be fully charged.  However, that wasn't the case.  I stopped the machine, tilted it forward, removed the float bowl and inspected it.  Nice and clean.  Then I pulled the main jet to inspect it.  I could see light through the orifice but wasn't sure of how big of a hole should be there.  You never know with jets.  Nonetheless, I ran a piece of thin wire through it then blew it out with compressed air.  I also blew out the passage in the carb where the jet goes.  After cleaning the jet, I took a good look at the orifice.  The amount of light passing through it indicated It was much larger after cleaning.  Approx. 2/3rds larger than when it was restricted.   Compared to many carbs I've worked on, It does have a rather large orifice. 

The strange thing is that I bought this machine new less than a year ago.  I ran it completely out of fuel before I stored it yet it still managed to develop enough varnish in the main jet to cause problems.  Go figure?  That's the first time I've had that kind of a problem with my own equipment.  I still have the two Tecumseh powered machines to fire up yet.  I'll  let you know how they fared. 

Can you find non-ethanol gas where you are?If you can, try using only pure gas.

Many people seem to  like to blame ethanol for every problem related to carburetors.  We've had e-gas up here for well over twelve years.  This is the first restricted main jet incident I've encountered with  my equipment. 

I just fired up the two Tecumseh engines with one pull each after sitting since last March.  One pull each!  I also fired up my Toro Power shovel.  It has a diaphragm carb and took a few pulls to fire up.  I also fired up the B&S engine on the Simplicity with one pull.    So, personally, I'm very reluctant to blame the e-gas for the carb problem.  Sometimes fuel will gum up.  When you think of how small a diameter the main jet is ( a little bigger than this "."), it's not hard to understand how they can occasionally get partially blocked or plugged when residual fuel dries up.

I posted the information just in case anyone else is having starting difficulty, insufficient engine speed or rough running.  If they are, it's likely something to do with the carb.  

I'm still trying to find the time to work the carb on that CCR3000 I messed around with late last winter/early spring. I think I'm going to remove the carb (yet again!) and give it another good probing with a wire to see if I can finally get this beast running consistently. Did you get your 221QE running smoothly yet?

Yeah.  As soon as I cleaned/replaced the jet, put the fuel bowl back on it was ready to go.  Running great.  So are my two Tecumseh powered machines.  I've really learned to appreciate those Tecumseh two cycle engines.  Not saying the B&S R-tek isn't any good.  I just haven't had a lot of time using it.  We'll see how well they hold up this winter.  

borat wrote:

I am not sure how it effects small engines but I was burnt once by ethanol.Fuel lines of my car were rusted like sieve.I had to replace the lines and the tank.I stopped buying ethanol gas. I have been filling up with 100% gas since then.It is 7-10 cents more per gallon but it is worth the price.

I am not sure why certain blowers start and run without any issues and some do.  My HS35 is at least 20 years old and the sparkplug was rusted out but started on first or second pull. I am sure the gas is a few years old.  After the sparkplug change and with old gas, she starts on first pull and runs really smooth. I have not been picky on gas and had no issue thus far using 10% 87 octane gas grade.

Borat, sorry to here about the carb issue with the Toro 221 as I just bought one last year also.  As I haven't yet brought mine out of storage yet this topic caught my attention. I'm not sure if this is an issue and I know you're aware of this but Toro does suggest 50:1. I also stored the machine with no fuel and was careful to tilt the machine in all directions until I was sure I burned most of it off. Ive yet to remove the cover and I'm curious if this machine has a drain on the float bowl or not?

Anyway I've been researching generators lately with all of the storms we've had here in New York and lo and behold they seem to be having the same fuel/carb issues. A lot of the discussions have been aimed at ethanol so I'm not sure how much of a factor it is or isn't. My understanding is that ethanol absorbs water which will settle into the lowest parts of the fuel system and oxidize over time. Fuel stabilizer in and of itself will not inhibit ethnol's ability to absorb moisture so armed with this info my plan is to try 91 octane fuel with Marine Sta-bil and to make sure I store the machine with a full tank during the winter season to limit condensation. The tricky part will be to find a way to keep the condensation at a minimum in the fuel storage container.  After all I've been reading during my research on snowthrowers and generators and due to the fact that it's impossible if not illegal to buy non-ethanol fuel in lower NYS, I'm thinking of going the full tank route for long term storage as there really is no way to be certain that the fuel system is completely dry.

Hope you all have a safe and happy snowthrowing season.

Had a very similar issue with my Honda 928 last week.  Bought it last January and was stored with the carb and tank drained.  When I started it last week it had very similar issues.  The Honda has a drain but when I attempted to drain the system not much fuel came out - VERY slow dribble. But the solution was not what I feared (remove and clean the carb).  The Honda has a small sediment bowl under the tank.  Thinking it was maybe clogged, I removed and inspected it.  Clean as a whistle it was.  When I put it back, the machine started and ran like a top.  Go figure.   I am thinking maybe an air lock in the system somewhere.  BTY - my JD 826, bought in 1982, is treated similarly and always  starts and has never had the carb removed for cleaning.  Used the same gas as for the Honda.

One little issue in all these years is insignificant.  The 221Q is super easy to work on.  The carb has a little access door.  Tilt the machine forward, remove the access door, pull the float bowl, pull the jet, clean it and put everything back together.  Less than 10 minutes.  Tools needed one medium sized philips screw driver to open the access door, one 5/16th" wrench to remove the float bowl bolt and one mediium small flat screw driver to unscrew the jet.   Very simple.  

Thanks for the information Borat. Hopefully I won't have to go that route at least until the warranty runs out.

MN_Runner wrote:

For some reason I ran into the same issues with my ATV's. seems the newer ones almost always have issues. While a 86 Honda 250 and 1992 Bayou always start up! I never run them dry or even shut the gas valve off. Then I have newer atv's that the carbs need servicing every other year or so! Friggen ridiculous!

Hey Borat my buddy how are you these days?, well I'm surprised for all thoses years you've been handling your machines like the king of the strokes...I think you just got a "citrus" It happens, probaly someone before you cleaned the jet the wrong way and bust something inside the carb there. I'm sure if you can get a used carb it will fix the problem. Once I had a similar problem

I do not remove any gas from my Honda lawnmower or Honda snowblower after the season is over.  I have yet to have any starting issue.  My lawnmower and snowblower start without any issue - nothing to change or clean.  Maybe ignorance is a blessing.

I tried to convence everyone that draining one fuel tank does not prevent any carb problems.  Gas today has water in it. Draining until it cuts off only drains enough fuel to stop the engine. The rest settles and messes up your bowl, jets and valves. I put fuel stabilizer in mine All the time. my Techumseh NEVER  fails me even after 15+ years. If you still want to drain your bowl. Run Stabill through it for 5-10 min to make sure it is through your carb.

I have drained the fuel tank on all of my small engine powered equipment (which is never less than 7 engines) in the following manner for the last 30+ years.  I remove the fuel line from the carb and drain all of the fuel out of the tank. I then blow compressed air into the tank to get any remaining gas out of the tank.  I loosen the bowl nut the allow all of the fuel to drain from the carb, re-attach the fuel line and replace the gas cap loosely.  I use this same procedure on all of my small engines and none have ever failed to start right up the following year. 

On engines with metal gas tanks i spray a mist/fog of wd40 into the tank to coat the inside.  I also change the oil and then with spark plug out i put a couple of squirts of motor oil through the spark plug hone and pull the engine over a few times to coat the cylinder.   Lastly I pull the cord until the engine is on Top Dead Center with both valves closed (compression stroke) and then i replace the spark plug. 

These measures only take a couple of minutes to do on each engine and in my opinion have saved me from the potential issue of varnishing. with the exception of the snow blower I do all of them at the same time normally on a cool November day after all of the summer use for these items are done.

My backup generator is a hybrid that runs on Natural gas and diesel so that does not require any maintanence on the fuel side,  Just oil changes and air filters when necessary.

Denis wrote:
Hi Denis. 

The carb/engine is fine now.  Fired it up and it ran great after cleaning the main jet.  All is well here.  Just waiting for snow.  Got a dusting last night but need a real serious dump.  Got the snowmobile in the garage all set to go and been clearing brush off of the trails.  Just need snow.  NOW!

Since I am now thinking I should leave  fuel in my OPE for storage and as I have both 2 and 4 stroke engines I have another question. Will the 2 stroke mix separate and cause isses with the fuel left in the equipment ? Thanks.

I have another friend who could not get his Toro 421QR started since using it this spring.  Granted he has one more year remaining on the warranty but for most people this is a real pain in the neck. Not everyone is as talented as Borat or the Graveyard Blower (i.e., trouts).  This is why I got really frustrated with Toro lawnmower and have yet to buy another Toro OPE.

I started using this for a boat motor issue and now I use it in every motor I own.

It brought back mileage that had been lost from the addition of ethanol.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/93/123/lang,en/

MN_Runner wrote:
Trust me.  I'm not a big Toro fan.   They're usually excessively expensive and from my experience, their dealers are arrogant and inconsiderate to the point of belligerence.  Accordingly, I wouldn't normally buy a Toro product despite the fact that they're good machines.  I bought my 221 from Home Depot at a bargain price.   Many hundreds less than what the local Toro gouger's price. 

Despite the minor carb issue, it's an excellent snow mover for it's size and weight.  That carb issue could have happened on any one of the numerous machines I have.  It just happened to be the newest snow removal machine I own.  Thus my surprise/bewilderment that it would happen to this machine.  Either way, it's in good running order now.  If I have any future problems with it, I'll be certain to report them. 

Not much talent required to fix a carb on this thing.  One of the easiest carb fixes I've done.  Everything is so easily accessible, it's a breeze to work on.  I just tilted it forward, pulled up the work stool did the work in a matter of minutes.  Probably less than ten.  Anyone with minimal skills could do that fix.  

Today I was cleaning up an old snowmobile that I bought last year for a mere $400.00.  It's a Polaris with a sweet 340cc Fuji two cycle engine in it.  This thing is in amazing shape.  I used last year for a few weeks and it performed flawlessly.  I brought it into the garage to give it a good once over before putting into service this season.  The more I inspect/do, the more pleased I am with how well it was taken care of.  Carbs were spotless, all cables and controls in new condition, clutches and belt excellent.  Cosmetic condition very good.  Suspension, skis, track all very good. 

Today, just for the hell of it, I checked the compression.  Both cylinders over 130 psi.  I don't have the specs for this engine but in most other machines I own, that's pretty much factory spec.   Unbelievably good condition.  And for $400.00????   Now that was one of the best buys I've ever made.  All I need now is some snow. 

Since we're sharing experiences... I just make sure there is stabilizer in the gas at the end of the season, whether it's a mower or snowblower (edit: or weedwhacker or chainsaw or leafblower. My 2-stroke oil has stabilizer). Put it away like that, and I've had good luck with things simply firing up again for the next season. I don't run them dry. That's in part because of something I read a long time ago, which said that running them dry could cause seals in the carb to dry out. I don't know if that's true, but I leave gas in them. Our gas always has ethanol now, for reference.

I've recently switched to Marine Stabil. That's for a few reasons. I believe that it's supposed to do better with ethanol. And, frankly, I noticed that it was a similar price to the regular version, but treated much more gas (8 oz treats 80 gal, vs 8 oz to 20 gal for the regular kind). So it's also cheaper to use.

After reading all these posts it's evident that some people store their equipment with full tanks and some who drain their equipment. I'm still wondering if it's a good idea to store a 2 stroke machine with a full tank or is this only anoption for 4 strokes?

On the 2 stage snowblower with the metal tank, I leave a full tank of gas, untreated.  Metal tanks tends to rust if you leave it empty.  Closed the fuel valve, drain the carb bowl.  I ran the engine last week with the fuel that's been there since last spring without any problems.

On the single stage snowblowers with plastic tank, I run it dry and also drain carb bowl.  No problem with this either.

I think the key is not to have any fuel sitting in the carb area for a long time.

Last year, I stopped adding any stabilizer or treatment to the fuel.  So far I don't have any starting problems on the lawnmower or the snowblowers that uses straight gasoline. 

Thanks aa335. I'm trying to avoid having to empty the carb as I'm sure running the machine dry still leaves fuel there. It's probably best to empty it per Borat's instructions and not take the chance but I'm always looking to do as little maintenance as possible. I'm beginning to think 4 stroke is a better option. Thanks for responding. 

2 stroke or 4 stroke doesn't make a difference.  I still make sure that there is no fuel sitting in carb.

Now that I'm more comfortable doing minor carb cleaning or work, I don't want to put any fuel additives or treatment.  I'm more in tune with my OPE equipment so there's no need for me to use "tune up in a can" stuff.

I have a 4 stroke lawn mower that I always stored with a full tank of gas treated with Sta-bil. Never a problem. Now we here about all these issues with ethanol and it worries me. I still think that ethanol has increased the amount of water in our fuel supply and is responsible for majority of the increase in fuel system issues. That plus inferior material used by manufacturers to cut costs. I still believe that Startron or Marine Sta-bil is a good idea to limit the settling of water in the system. Thanks again.

Seems like these newer OPE are too sensitive to fuel and carburetor problems.  All my Stihl 2 stroke handheld equipment have good power and torque but are a PITA to start when cold.  Many times I just want to dump them and get a 4 stroke Honda trimmer.

aa335 wrote:

I got one last summer.35cc version.

It is powerful but the head is problematic.Also the plastic covering the engine and muffler area are brittle.I saw a hairline crack on muffler guard area plastic, I touched it, it broke.I returned the trimmer.

blumonster wrote:
I'm not fond of the new Honda 35cc trimmer.  The head is plastic, and the hard plastic handle has a lot of sharp flash.  Crappy injection molding.   You can see that time has stood still for Honda trimmer, no improvements, just cost reduction measures.  Stihl and Echo has better trimmers, with soft overmolded handles.

My father has the a 10 year old Honda trimmer (32cc)  with cast metal head and it's just perfect.  The engine was easy to start, quiet, and so smooth.  This is the one that I want, they don't make them anymore.

aa335 wrote:

We can always go craigslist hunting. :D

I use white gas with stabil in all my small engine machines.  I drain them when finished, and have no problems.  Stabilized gas should be O-K for a year max.  I use the stuff up at least every 6 months.  BP-AMOCO premium is white gas.  After 11 years I had to wash and blow out the carb on my Little Wonder Leaf Blower.  It has a Honda GX270 engine rated at 9 HP.   The dirt from blowing leaves tends to get into everything eventually no matter how carefully you try to store it.  Once i did the carb clenaer it again ran like new.

Hello fellow Long Islander. I haven't heard the term "white gas" in years! I remember my father talking about it and the only place to get it was at an Amoco station which I believe is now owned or partnered with BP. This was in the days of leaded gasoline so I'm wondering what was the difference between Amoco's premium and the others? Do you remember?

You're scaring me with the idea of needing a snowblower with a 16" auger here on Long Island.     Is there something we should know about this upcoming winter??? 

I have yet to see any picture of New_Yorker's snowblower.  If he is truly using white gas then he has a white Honda snowblower too.  Perhaps you guys can have a play day for your snowblowers in Long Island.  It would be great if you can take a picture of New_Yorker's white Honda snowblower.

MN_Runner wrote:
I think it uses stealth technology and may not be able to be photographed.

Found the answer to the white gas question. Apparently this was the first gasoline manufactured without lead or red/orange dye. It was big with muscle car owners in the 60's and early 70's. I thought the older engines needed lead to lubricate the valves. Guess not. My father bought a '67 FairlaneGT with a 390cid v8 as a mid-life crisis toy so that's probably why I recall hearing about it.

ralphfr wrote:
That's why it needs "white gas".  Any other fuel will give it away.  Wonder if it uses white oil too.  Maybe melted whale lard??? 

borat wrote:

What does that even mean?

borat wrote:

Not exactly lard but maybe G oil :D

I don't want to get in the middle of this but for the record back in the day (1960s) Amoco High Test was referred to in New York as "white gas". I used it in my 2 stroke 175CC Jawa motorcycle. Urban legend said it made 2 strokes run better. If you used it in your car or 4 stroke motorcycle the station used to sell an additive called "Top C Lube". Street racers used to use Sunoco 260 from a pump that had a dial with different grades. The Sunoco was a blend but again urban legend" had it that the Sunoco station on Northern Boulevard near Connecting Highway had a doctored pump. Supposedly you got pure 260 which was rumored to be 102 octane. Guys would drive from all over to fill up at that station. High test was expensive, 36.9 cents a gallon, minimum wage was $1.25,White Castles were 12 cents and McDonalds (if you could find one) was 15 cents. No one ever called White Castle burgers a 'Slider". They were known as belly bombers and were always served drive In style by Car Hops. Those were some wonderful times!!! Marc