Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

jrtrebor wrote:
Hang on. If the coil is designed to be connected directly to a battery, then it's not putting out AC, it's just unfiltered DC. Which is fine for light bulbs and for batteries. What do you think the alternator in your car puts out? Unfiltered DC. In fact, the battery IS the filter for the rest of the car's DC systems. Do you have a volt meter? If so, set it to DC and read the voltage off the coil wires. If you get a positive voltage one way and a negative voltage the other way. Skip the rectifier and just connect the battery and light. You're good to go.

Actually, you'll find a lot of articles that say pulsating DC is better than straight DC for charging lead/acid batteries because it reduces sulfation. OF course, the RMS voltage should still remain in the recommended 12.5 (low float) to 14.5V (absorption phase) range.

jrtrebor wrote:
It does look a little odd, but there could be a couple of reasons.
1. Combining the outputs of a standard "dual output" coil for greater current.
2. Each of the wires going into a single wire may be a diode output so the combined output is fully rectified DC instead of just the upper or lower halves of a half-wave rectified AC wave.

But, for sure, if the wires connected directly to the solenoid (starter solenoid) the you do NOT need a rectifier and the coil is designed to connect directly to a battery since the battery would be connected to the solenoid and ground.

Silly question. Was the meter set to DC or AC?

did you check to output from the coils before the rectifier to see if they were ac or dc?  If it is in fact DC you should not need the rectifier just connect the positive to the solinoid and the ground to a chassis ground and hook up the battery and then check the voltage again.

Carl

Gee, jrtrbor, I'm not sure what to make of this. 17.8V is way too high. You should be able to connect the BR+ output to either the Battery+ or the battery side of the solenoid. If you disconnected one of the coil wires from the BR~ connections, your meter would be showing the battery voltage if the leads were connected to the BR+ and BR- outputs. The coil shouldn't be putting any power through the rectifier at that point. 12.8V sounds right for a battery that was just subjected to 17.8V.

This is actually getting more confusing for me by the day, LOL.  I'm not sure that I know how to correctly check for AC voltage.  Or what kind of readings to expect to see.
I thought I did but the readings I tried to take this morning seemed to be all over the place.  And the readings between the two different coil wires are quite a bit different.  I was putting black probe to ground, red probe to coil wire.  Meter in VAC mode.  I'm just trying to be careful and not do something I shouldn't and burn something up, coils, rectifiers.

I hooked up the new Bridge Rectifier had a battery connected in the system.  Meter in VDC mode.
Black probe to ground red probe to solenoid + terminal and or battery + post.    At idle reading -14.2V 
Black probe to ground red probe to solenoid + terminal and or battery + post.     Full throttle reading - 17.2V

Removed Bridge Rectifier and hooked up borrowed Honda Rectifier, battery connected in the system. 
With a wire hooked to the B + terminal (left terminal) on the Rectifier.   At idle reading - 13.5V
With a wire hooked to the B + terminal on the Rectifier.    Full throttle reading - 16.8V

Second test with Honda Rectifier
Wire was moved to the IGN. terminal (center terminal) on the Rectifier.    At idle reading - 13.2V
Full throttle reading - with the wire hooked to the IGN. terminal on the Rectifier.    Full throttle reading - 13.1V
The other end of the wire that I'm talking about above is connected to the solenoid + terminal.  There are no wires coming from either rectifier going directly to the battery.  If the wire was connected
to the battery + post instead of solenoid + terminal could and or would that change the readings?

Can, and will the output voltage from the coils vary even when the engine RPM is constant?  I guess what I get a little confused about is whether both coils are independent of each other.
 Each putting out a certain amount of voltage at a given RPM.  How and or what happens when you combine them by connecting them to the Bridge rectifier or the Honda rectifier/ regulator.
I realize explaining this may be way more involved or over my head.  I get some of it, some of it I don't.  Was hoping to learn something out of this but I seem to be getting a little more confused
than I was.  I think I've learned that a Bridge Rectifier does nothing more than change or convert AC voltage to DC voltage.
Is 13 + volts enough to keep the battery charged when I'm running my small light.  I don't recall what the wattage is, but I know it's less than 50.  And the charging coil is supposed to be 10A.

The voltage will be the same if you measure at the B+ connection or the Solenoid+ connection. Will the voltage vary at a constant RPM? It can depending on what kind of regulator/rectifier is used. I have no idea what the IGN terminal does. Do you have a Honda part number for it? perhaps I could do a little searching for schematics using one and figure it out.

JimmyM wrote:
From looking at a wiring diagram for the Honda tractor (HT3810) that my friend has, which is where the borrowed rectifier came from.  It shows one wire coming from the rectifier going to the key switch.
On it's way there is a tap off that wire going to a fuse block.  The fuse block sends power to fuel pump relay, fuel pump other accessories.  The B+ wire coming off the Rectifier goes to the Batt. terminal
on the key switch as well. On it's way there is a tap off that wire that goes to the battery. Third terminal in that row on the Rectifier goes to ground.

So I'm guessing that maybe the rectifier is designed to send different voltages out of the B+ terminal and the IGN terminal?  One feed or output to the battery and one to the accessories.
I have been using this wiring diagram and then looking at the tractors wiring to try and sort things out.  It's the only way I knew how to do it.  There are no diagrams for just my engine.
Or drawings showing what the rectifier terminals are supposed to be connected to.

The Honda part number for the Rectifier that is supposed to be used with my engine is 31600-ZE2-861. I verified that through Honda using all my engine codes (QNE2 & GCANK) and through
another parts distributor.  There is one for sale on Ebay that also verified it and showed the manufacturer and Part #  Shindengen SH586B-12.
The rectifier that I am borrowing is made by the same manufacturer but has a different part number SH561-12.  I went to the Manufacturers web site and found the borrowed rectifier part number (SH561-12).  
Along with a connecting/wiring diagram for that rectifier.  (I didn't see a listing for my specified rectifier. SH586B-12)
I'm sure it's showing what I'd like to know, but I don't know what a lot of the symbols mean. So I don't know what it's telling me.  I'm sure you would know. 
It's listed under
Single Phase Regulator Rectifier Lineup (Full Wave)
Shunt Style Regulator Matrix
The borrowed rectifier ( SH561-12) seems to be very similar to what Honda calls for on my engine (SH586B-12).  Except that the one rating is a little lower @ 8A instead of 10A.
I believe that the Connecting Diagram for it is further down the page.  Where it says
If you wouldn't mind having a look and telling me what it say's and what you think I'd appreciate it.
Both rectifiers have five terminals. One row of two terminals, for the 2 coil wire hook ups.  One row of three terminals, a ground wire terminal, and two voltage output terminals.
Thanks everyone for your comments and help. I am lost when it comes to some of this stuff. I just don't know the basics of electronic components and what they do or how they work.

Well. The SH561-12 is a combination regulator and rectifier. So a simple bridge rectifier can't be substituted.
The page you link to is formatted such that the diagrams shown are for the part numbers listed above them. The section for the SH561 doesn't show a diagram. The ones under it (SH734, et al) are a different type of regulator (Series vs Shunt), so their diagrams can't be used.
I did some searching on SH561 but found few results. I'm going to try looking up the other part numbers and see if I can find a wiring diagram. It may be that the IGN terminal needs to be tied to B+ since your diagram shows it connected to the ignition switch. But I can't be sure.

Edit: I found a wiring diagram for a water craft that uses the SH589, but it only shows 4 wires connecting to it.