Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" - higher impeller speed
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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stresst
Location: The Village in the Middle of New York
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Points: 213
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #1 Oct 5, 2011 8:08 pm |
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You sound like me! LOL I purchased the Toro 826OXE last year and I immediately wanted more power as well. I actually posted the identical thread as you! lol I never did get an answer and now im looking for a new blower. Back to your dilema imo with a 24" bucket you will more then fine. I was probably more then fine with a 26" bucket with 26"+ snow! I did a quick search and only found one 24" blower with a larger engine, it was the Simplicity P1524E which is a 305cc engine on a 24" wide bucket which imo is friggen huge!
TORO 826OXE
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FrankMA
Location: Merrimack Valley/Northeastern Mass
Joined: Jul 1, 2010
Points: 587
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #3 Oct 5, 2011 8:32 pm |
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You two guys ought to buy one of each and give the rest of us a report on the performance of each machine. I had a 6 HP, 24" bucket machine for 10 years and really had no complaints. Yeah it would bog down in heavy EOD type of garbage but that was to be expected (IMO). I really don't think there is any type of silver bullet out there that can handle every type of snow condition or snowfall amount. I would think that standing behind a 10 - 13 HP engine on a 24" platform would be fatiguing to the operator and abusive to the overall platform. Anybody that has ever blown out the EOD after a huge storm in which the plow has come by several times can attest to the shuddering and vibrations that occur when trying to work your way through that type of crap. I just think you need a bit more weight and a larger platform to handle that stuff on a regular basis without destroying the machine. YMMV...
Toro Wheel Horse 522xi GT, Honda HS928TA, Honda HS621AS, Honda HS520A, Toro CCR3000 (work in progress), Honda HS624WA (sold 08/23/2010), Stihl BR550 Backpack Blower, Stihl MS250, McCulloch MS1635, Honda EM6500SX Generator
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trouts2
Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #7 Oct 6, 2011 12:30 pm |
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Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement. Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement.
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slinger
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
Points: 158
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #8 Oct 6, 2011 8:08 pm |
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Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement. Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement. Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement. Ariens made an 11.5/24 until about 2004 which was a nice machine. It tossed very well and was no problem to use. It had a 12 inch impeller which ran at 1310RPM. It did not sag much when tossing so usually running the impeller at peak velocity. They go $350 to $700 used around the Boston area. It would be hard to find a better tossing machine unless a Honda or Yamaha. I put an 11hp on a 924050 Ariens 24 frame which was not as well balanced as with it’s original 8hp but no problem to use. Most makers 8hps run on the same frames as their larger hp machines with larger buckets which helps offset the larger weight. A bigger engine would help to offset the RPM drop from EOD loading. An 8hp is a decent engine though. You could try setting it for 4000 RPM to boost the impeller speeds. You could clear most of the time backed off on the throttle and when you wanted a boost take a thinner cut and run it at full throttle. You could go to a slightly oversized auger drive pulley for an impeller speed boost also. An impeller kit might improve things depending on what that model has for an impeller arm to barrel gap. Throwing tough EOD across a two lane street would be tough for any machine. Your machine has a 3 blade 14 inch impeller which I think turns about 1200 RPM not 1310 as for the 12 inch impeller models. A bigger engine would get you a boost but a smaller cut would equal what you’d get from a 13hp mounted on your machine. If you can’t get the distance you need with a smaller cut then a bigger engine would not do much. You’ll have to boost the impeller velocity. Check the archives for jrtrebor’s modifications to his machine. You can get an idea of the velocity numbers you’d have to shoot for and the pulley arrangement.
I looked closer at my Platinum 24 tonight. The frame has two sets of engine mounting holes. The set being used for the current 250cc engine and the exact bolt hole mounting pattern required for the 342cc engine. They must use the same frame and just put either a 24" or 30" bucket on it. In my manual it states the impeller speed at 1010 rpm (3702 ft/min. tip speed). Yes, the idea is to use a slightly larger auger drive pulley with the larger engine to see if I can get a little better throw out of it. Impeller to barrel gap is around 1/4". No modifications have been made there. The two engines have the same shaft diameter, length, and height. I might need a new, larger belt finger if I increase the diameter of the auger drive pulley. The engine mounts almost directly over the drive wheels, perhaps just slightly to the rear of them. The bigger engine adds 30 lbs. If the balance is thrown off significantly I could always add the front weight kit. It just sounds like a fun project. If it works well I'll have an Ariens Polar Force 250cc engine with the ball bearing on the PTO and <5 hours run time for sale!
This message was modified Oct 6, 2011 by slinger
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jrtrebor
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #15 Oct 8, 2011 10:25 pm |
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slinger - You won't be able to find a single dual belt pulley that will work. You have to use to separate pulley's. I put a 3.25" on my Ariens 1132 (soon to be 1332) Here is a link where you can get the pulley's your looking for and will need PulleysActually It's 3.45" but that's close enough. You can search by shaft size to find the other pulley you'll need to drive the tractor. Stock on most Ariens I believe is 2.50" When using two separate pulleys instead of the dual pulley. You have to play around with how to put them on the shaft. Collar forward, collar backwards. Or you may even have to grind off some of the collar on one or both to make it shorter to get the alignment right with the lower pulley. But it's very do-able. I actually cut a steel dual belt pulley in half to use the 3.25" side. Then drilled and tapped the collar above the key way slot for a set screw.
This message was modified Oct 8, 2011 by jrtrebor
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slinger
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
Points: 158
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #16 Oct 9, 2011 2:10 am |
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I found a 2 groove pulley that's 3.35" od x 1" shaft here: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/VBelt-Pulley-3X520?BaseItem=3X520 I estimate that it should take the 14" dia impeller speed from 1010 rpm (factory) to about 1340 rpm. There's also a 3.95" dia. available, but that might be too much (1577 impeller rpm). I will have to bend the belt finger to try to make it fit. Are you saying that these 2 groove pulleys will not position the belts properly to line up with the impeller shaft pulleys? Will this increase in impeller speed on a 14" impeller make much of a difference (+330 rpm)? The extra hp from the 342cc motor should handle this extra load, no?
This message was modified Oct 9, 2011 by slinger
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jrtrebor
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" EOD Machine?
Reply #19 Oct 29, 2011 10:14 am |
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Well, changing the 2 groove auger drive pulley on the engine shaft is a no-go. Ariens uses a custom made part that extends the pulleys past the end of the shaft by a couple of inches. So, the other alternative is to reduce the size of the 2 groove pulley that goes on the impeller shaft. The stock part is 8.5" diameter with a 1.65" center hole and 3 bolt pattern that mounts the hub. Does anyone know of a similar pulley that measures between 6 to7" in diameter or am I dead in the water again? That pulley looks a lot like and automotive pulley. You might try a junk yard. Maybe you could get lucky and find one with the OD your looking for. The center hub hole will probably not match yours. But a competent machine shop or do it yourselfer could get your hub mounted. The offset could also be an issue but possibly resolved with shims / washers on the hub. I'm sure it's do-able if you can find one with the right diameter.
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jrtrebor
Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" - is a smaller impeller pulley available? Picture attached
Reply #24 Oct 29, 2011 7:04 pm |
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Could I optimize my Ariens by removing the stock 250cc Polar Force engine and bolting on a bigger engine...let's say a 342cc or something similar? Is there a bigger Briggs (Polar force, Intek, etc.) that would mount on that frame and accomplish my objective without too much modification?
If you go up to something like a 342cc (11hp) from a 250cc (8hp). Your probably getting into a different block size. Eight and ten horse blocks are usually the same. 11 & 13 horse are usually the same but larger than the eight and ten. It's that way with Honda's so I'm assuming it's that way with Briggs. If it is, then the engine mount bolts holes will be different. The crankshaft vertical center line will be higher and the engine will probably have to be moved back on the blower. The belt cover may also not fit because of the higher crankshaft. Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out some other things that may be involved in re-powering your blower. Another modification that you might consider. Check to see how much clearance you have between the tips of the impeller blades and the impeller housing. If it's more than a 1/8" say 1/4 to 5/16". Buying an impeller kit or extending the blades by adding on weld. Will give you a noticeable improvement in throwing distance. And the blowers ability to throw really wet almost slushy snow. Having said that, improving the impellers efficiency will also put a bigger load on the engine. But you could then upgrade from the 8hp to a 10hp (instead of an 11hp) to pick up some additional power. And staying with the same block size would eliminate the problems of going up a block size. Assuming the eight and ten horse Briggs engines share the same block size. Just some thoughts. I re-powered my Ariens 1032 with an 11hp Honda clone (and have now put a 13hp Honda on it) Increased the the blower drive pulley from 2 3/4" to 3 1/4". And decreased the impeller blade clearance to 1/16+ Here is a video of the throwing distances it has now. Most of the snow was dense over plow and had been sitting for days. It's great fun to use! Doing the same modifications on a blower with a 24" bucket instead if a 32" bucket. And you would have no trouble throwing across the street. Blower video
This message was modified Oct 29, 2011 by jrtrebor
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aa335
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" - is a smaller impeller pulley available? Picture attached
Reply #27 Oct 30, 2011 12:08 am |
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I've been following the modifications that you have done on the Ariens, very impressed with the resourcefulness. I'm glad you have the tools and technique to do. That Ariens has great ability to move a good volume of snow, and I think the tapering of the chute deflector will help tighten the stream. My Honda 1132 was bought brand new and still all stock. It is a beauty and moves snow so well that I've never had any urge to modify it. It doesn't quite have the volumetric capacity of your modified Ariens, but it is a highly efficient machine that puts out a very tight stream of snow. I've been studying why this is so and it comes down to the blower and chute section. All the little nuances which you have incorporated into the Ariens, with the help of the huge 390cc engine. I'm very proud of my stable of snowblowers. Each one was chosen as the pinnacle or unique of its kind or time. An Ariens Pro 28 might the next acquisition. But not just yet, I'm waiting to see what else Ariens have to offer besides shoehorning a huge engine. That's too easy for other manufacturers to leapfrog. Looking forward to seeing more of your videos of the Ariens with the new 390cc engine. Perhaps a gently curved metal chute with a 2 section deflector is on your list of mods.
This message was modified Oct 30, 2011 by aa335
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carlb
Joined: Nov 16, 2010
Points: 279
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Re: 2010 Ariens Platinum 24" - is a smaller impeller pulley available? Picture attached
Reply #30 Oct 30, 2011 8:19 am |
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If you go up to something like a 342cc (11hp) from a 250cc (8hp). Your probably getting into a different block size. Eight and ten horse blocks are usually the same. 11 & 13 horse are usually the same but larger than the eight and ten. It's that way with Honda's so I'm assuming it's that way with Briggs. If it is, then the engine mount bolts holes will be different. The crankshaft vertical center line will be higher and the engine will probably have to be moved back on the blower. The belt cover may also not fit because of the higher crankshaft. Not trying to discourage you, just pointing out some other things that may be involved in re-powering your blower. Another modification that you might consider. Check to see how much clearance you have between the tips of the impeller blades and the impeller housing. If it's more than a 1/8" say 1/4 to 5/16". Buying an impeller kit or extending the blades by adding on weld. Will give you a noticeable improvement in throwing distance. And the blowers ability to throw really wet almost slushy snow. Having said that, improving the impellers efficiency will also put a bigger load on the engine. But you could then upgrade from the 8hp to a 10hp (instead of an 11hp) to pick up some additional power. And staying with the same block size would eliminate the problems of going up a block size. Assuming the eight and ten horse Briggs engines share the same block size. Just some thoughts. I re-powered my Ariens 1032 with an 11hp Honda clone (and have now put a 13hp Honda on it) Increased the the blower drive pulley from 2 3/4" to 3 1/4". And decreased the impeller blade clearance to 1/16+ Here is a video of the throwing distances it has now. Most of the snow was dense over plow and had been sitting for days. It's great fun to use! Doing the same modifications on a blower with a 24" bucket instead if a 32" bucket. And you would have no trouble throwing across the street. Blower videoGreat video, That 32" ariens with that 11hp clone is doing a great Job. I just got done doing a 11hp clone install on a early 80's 26" cub cadet large frame machine. This cub has a 14" diameter impeller with 16" diameter augers. I expect to move the snow very effectively being only 26" wide.
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