Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

In Massachusetts right now, I'm without power. I have a Craftsman (relabeled Generac) 4.2 kW (5.2kW surge) generator. But it struggles to run my house. Even being careful with power, it sags badly (some home electronics shut off or restart) when my 240V 1/2HP well pump starts. UPSs constantly cycle between battery and AC. I have tested the voltage (116-117V per line). It's just not enough. I'll make it through this outage (projected to last 5-7 days overall). But the Wife and I have decided that a better/bigger generator is needed for the future. I'm looking in the 8kW-15kW continuous output range. Wheeled to allow its movement and runs on Gasoline. I'd still like it to be at least semi-portable.

I've looked at the Generac GP8000 and GP15000s and they look good. But what other good reliable brands are out there? Honda's big one is only 6500W.
Is Northern Tool's house brand (NorthStar) any good?

Take a look at units built by a company named Winco. They are top of the heap in my opinion. When you get up in the 12000 watt range you usually have a twin cylinder unit with electric start only. Are you sure you need one that large? Marc

I've seen a couple of Wincos. They'd better be top of the line for what they cost. This generator would only be used a couple of times a year, so I'm not sure I need something THAT top of the line. But thanks for the tip.

The 4.2 I have now is almost completely inadequate. I'm going to be upgrading my electric service from 100A to 200A soon with a new panel. Reliance electric has a 200A panel with an integral main/generator breaker lockout mechanism. I'll be using one of those. So, while I'm at it I can run #6 or #4 wire to a generator "plug-in" That means I can either use a 30A or 50A plug. I know I could use #6 for 50A service, but I want to keep voltage drop to a minimum when surge loads are applied (A/C or well pump start). 30A gets me 7.2kW (8kW generator). a 50A plug get's me up to 12kW. Going to 15kW wouldn't really get me anything since the 15kW generator's 50A plug has a 50A breaker. I would need to use the other plugs to extract the remaining 3kW. I don't see that happening.
So I figure that with a 50A breaker a 10-12kW might be the right range. an 8kW might to the trick, but I'd be more comfortable with 10.

I'd been looking mostly at the Generacs and NorthStars. There are a couple of Brigg&Strattons but they don't have an electronic voltage regulator. I think I need that due to the apparent sensitivity of my UPSs.

Aside from the Wincos, Are there any others than Generac and NorthStars that I should consider as well?

I went the other way.  I had a wheeled 7.8kw generator that could run most of my home but I downsized to a small 1850 watt unit for portability.   No it won't run my house but it will keep my frig going plus a few lights. 

My brother bought a Subaru 10K watt single phase generator last year and loves it.  I head it run and it's really quiet.  I think he paid around $3,500 for it plus he paid an electrician to wire it up as a whole house back up.  That's a lot of money but he lives in the W VA mountains and trees are always knocking down power lines in his area...so he's able to justify it.  You can buy that much KW for a lot less than he spent though.

I use a generator that I built based on an old Lister 6 horsepower diesel engine. It has a max continuous output of just around 3200 watts. It is a very slow running engine at 650 rpm and with run on either straight diesel, or a combination of Natural gas and diesel. This being an indirect injected engine it is also well suited for running on (properly filtered) waste motor oil as well waste vegetable oil. This engine is extremely fuel efficient and will run at full load on less than a quart of fuel per hour on straight diesel. Running natural gas and diesel it will only use about 6 oz of diesel an hour.

While there is some mechanical noise in the garage when the engine is running it is almost very quite outside. You can not hear it running if you are 30 feet away from the house. you can not hear this generator running from inside the house.

This generator is connected directly to a 20 circuit manual transfer switch. The generator is large enough to power all of our needs in a power failure except run the central air. Understanding and identifying what loads are necessary in a emergency backup situation is critical to sizing your generator. You really don't want to have to spend the money for a large generator if you don't need it and you really don't want to have to feed that large generator if you do not have enough load to justify a large generator. Swapping out regular 100 watt bulbs to CFL's will allow you to run 4 light bulbs for every one regular 100 watt bulb. Conservation of energy is critical when planning a backup generator. Some of the large high speed (3600) rpm generators can consume over 2 gallons of fuel per hour.

This clip is of the engine running on straight diesel before the installation of the Natural gas regulator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfGjlHNX-68

I am thinking of buying the Honda eu6500isa and have a transfer switch installed. That will run my fridge, oil burner, and a Tv with no problem.  Just cant believe that these things are not to be run in the rain or snow. Thats most likely when you will need it.  If anyone knows of a better unit in the same price range that is weather proof and able to run in the rain let me know. I am also in MA.  Cant imagine you need something bigger than 6500 unless you want your entire house up and going all at once.  Then you will be filling the tank every couple of hours.

Knee_Biter wrote:

I've been thinking about either the EU6500 or EM6500 as well. Not sure I need to spend approximately $ 2K more for the EU over the EM unit as the only real difference appears to be the information monitor panel and clean power inverter. I realize the inverter provides clean power for computers and high end electronic devices but I could get by without those items for a few days with no regrets.

Why don't you just build a small dog house style enclosure for the generator so you can place it outside without fear of water damage. I would imagine that these units must be protected from the elements because they generate a fair amount of electric power which could create a dangerous situation if a problem occurred. I'll bet they can take some weather but they probably don't want to advertise this because of the idiot factor that exists in our society these days...

I'm pretty sure 6500W would be enough if it weren't for my well pump. When it starts, the lights dim, the cable box restarts. One thing I find irritating is that every UPS I have WILL NOT switch back to AC power and stay there if that AC power is supplied by my generator. It constantly cycles back and forth. The 8-12KW generators have 8-12 gallon tanks and will run for 10 hours at half load on a tankful. I'm not too worried about fuel consumption.
I'll look into the Subaru generators too. Thanks.

Are Honda,Winco,Gillette portable generators more reliabe than say B&S or Generac? Also would a Honda 5000 running watts handle a load better than a B&S 6500 running watts?

mikiewest wrote:

I found out yesterday that most of the" manufacturers are really "assemblers". As we know they are using engines of other manufacturer except for Honda, Briggs , Yamaha etc. Those manufacturers use their engines but generator heads provided by other manufacturers. An example of a generator head supplier is Mecc Alte , an Italian company that provides the generator heads for the stand by units made by Briggs and some of the portable units made by Winco. Other offerings in the Winco line use generator heads that Winco winds in the U.S. I haven't as yet verified it but I would think that Briggs is using heads made by another supplier as electric is not their business. With regard to reliability there is certainly a difference between units from the same manufacturer much less different manufacturers. Look at the spec sheets for units of the same output and often the same engine and then look at the difference in over all weight. The weight differential can be accounted for by the difference in magnets and the difference in how they are wound. My cheapy unit has bearings and brushes rated according to the manual for 1000 hours. The specs for the commercial grade by the same manufacturer are much higher. Your question concerning the Honda vs the Briggs is an interesting one. Watts are watts. The 5000 Honda will not do well with a continuous load of 6000 watts and will probably trip the breaker on the unit in order to protect the generator and the load. The 6500 Briggs would handle the 6000 watt load as that is what it is designed for. There is one thing to be aware of according to the tech i spoke to yesterday at Winco. I was curious about the difference between their Industrial grade units and their home owner units of comparable capacity. One difference in the industrial grade units is a heavy winding that enables the easy start of electric motors that are normally hard starting(refrigeration,air conditioners etc.). For that application he said the industrial grade units are more durable and better suited. He also said you should only buy a brushless unit if you intend on running anything with electronic controls like computers or modern appliances. Lastly I was at my local OPE dealer getting an air filter when a delivery of Briggs Generators was in progress . The boxes were marked made in China. You get what you pay for! Marc

Thanks, Marc. I'm glad to see someone finally looked at the generator part of a generator and not only the motor.

Now Gillette claims they use larger capcitors than other brands and diodes.How would one know if their claim is true?My manual for a ridgid generator does not list any of those specs.Neither does their website.

I purchased the eu6500is and this thing is quiet. Had a transfer switch installed. tried it out and it runs my entire house. Like car insurence you hope you never need to use it. But if I do I am ready.   Expensive yes. But looks and smells real nice

I've narrowed it down to 2 Generacs. The XG10000E or the GP15000E. Expensive $2000 & $2300 respectively, but hopefully I'll only ever have to buy one of them.

JimmyM wrote:

I was looking at both of these as well as the 7K generac home depot sells thats a stand alone unit and its only 1700......not sure what is the "rite way"??

It's been a while since Irene and after a tremendous # of phone calls and hours upon hours of research I bought a Gillette Power Pro7500 Watt unit. It was new old stock and bought off Ebay. It arrived in absolutely pristine condition and the seller was a perfect gentleman. Honda 390GX power,brushless design,low oil shut down and the wheel kit was included. The Power Pro line of Gillette is now only made up to 6500 Watts. If you need more you have to buy their Gen Pro line which includes a voltmeter ,hour clock and GFI circuit breakers (the Power Pro line comes with regular breakers).Other than those options the Power Pro and Gen Pro are identical. Normally I would have bought the Gen Pro for the extra $100 but I found this NOS unit on ebay with the factory wheel kit for $1449 plus $300 shipping which turned out to be $850 less than I could get the Gen Pro 7500. Two gages and GFI breakers weren't worth $850 to me. A word about the GFI breakers-In my research I found that even if a generator has GFI breakers they are only on the 120 volt receptacles. The full power 240 volt receptacle on all manufacturers units is not equipped with a GFI breaker. If you are going to use the 240 volt receptacle to power your home through a transfer switch the GFI breakers are I think superfluous. A comment about Gillette- The units are made in America (Indiana) using all American made parts with the exception of the Honda engine. It is an old style American owned and run business and you can get to speak to the owner by just calling on the phone! He is a busy guy so his conversation tends to be a little "short" but he always takes your call. Not being an electrical engineer I can only report what I read from my research but it appears that the Gillette power heads are a unique design that produce power that has a sine wave with less or equal distortion than that from your local power company. This was pretty much a deciding factor for me as the quality of the current is important in not "blowing up" any appliances with electronic controls or computers.I already own a generator which is an old brushed design and found I had problems with my computer and the electronic controls on my stand up freezer when using it during Irene. Gillette power heads also have the heavy hard start winding which allows for easy starting of refrigeration units or other compressor type equipment.This winding that I referenced comes on the commercial grade units of some manufacturers (Winco for example) but not all. In closing a special thanks to fellow member MikieWest for his comments about Gillette. It was these comments that started me researching this brand. Marc

I have a Yamaha EF6600DE and have been very pleased with its performance. The thing is quiet and runs anything I want it too including computers which I had heard needed "clean" power like an inverter type unit has. I have two sumps to run and sometimes they both kick on at the same time but the Yanaha does not flinch. I also have electric hot water that takes 4,000 watts. I have a seperate plug for the hot water and  then move the cord back to the 10 breaker transfer switch when the water is done. While not big enough to run the whole house all at once it handles the basics and then some. I do not run the stove or microwave but I can live without those for a few days or even longer as long as I have heat, my basement is not flooding, my fridge contents are not spoiling, and my grill is working!.

A couple of years ago, I bought an ETQ 4k generator via Amazon for less than 4 hundred bucks delivered... biggest deciding criteria was this unit had a 240V outlet.  I have no doubt it's a Chinese product.  Bought a transfer switch and installed it. Transfer switch, wire, exterior box etc cost almost as much as the generator.  Have had to use it a few times since installed and took me through Irene.  During Irene it was going for three days. Uses 4 gallons in 10+ hours. and runs flawlesly so far! I run all sorts of electronic equipment on it, ref. lights, tv and some microwave thrown in.  I leave the Water Pump breakers off.  When I run the 220V water pump, I do unload most of the other draws, pump up the water tank, WP breakers off, all others back on.

Real Happy with the generator and the setup...  Have heard a few good things about ETQ generators from a few people.  I would think a 6.5K generator would be fine for running a whole house... just realize your working off a generator and use your head!

I had a look at the Gillette generatos web site. WOW those things are built well. I really like how they go into the design details of their generator section. Windings, diodes, etc.
They're quite expensive, but perhaps instead of a 12-15kW Generac, I can use a 9-10kW Gillette.

Thanks for the info.

I own a ridgid portable generator.It's rated at 6800 running watts and 8500 start up watts.It has a Yamaha MZ360 11hp engine and an "armour heavy duty alternator" (whatever that means).I used it during Hurricane Irene for 10 consecutive days,22 hrs/day.I would shut it down for 1 hr in the morning prior to refueling and 1 hr in the evening before refueling.It ran my whole house.I had a 10 circuit manual transfer switch installed.It ran a sump pump,deep freezer,sub zero refrigerator,flat panel tv,computer,toaster,micro wave and never did my generator feel overworked.It has a auto voltage regulator so I guess an inverter gen is not needed. My comp and all the electronic appliances worked perfectly.And I bought it at home depot for $900 + tax. Winco and Gillette make great products as does yamaha and honda.But I cant see spending 2 to $3000 on something that I will use once every 2 to 3 yrs.So far my $900 gen has proven to be reliable and safe to use with electronic equipment.

mikiewest wrote:
I guess I'm trying to just get a generator that works. I don't want to spend $1000 on a generator to have it not do the job (UPSs and Well Pump) then have to fight with the retailer to take it back as a used item.
Maybe I'll see if I can rent a 8 or 10kW generator and see how it fares.