Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

It's in decent condition, new rubber impeller, scraper bar and overall good shape. The guy I bought it from said it had been professionally serviced 2 years ago but had seen little use since then as he decided to hire a plow guy to do his average residential driveway. I could not get it to start after adding some fresh fuel that I brought with me so I offered him $ 40.00 and said OK. - he had it listed for $ 75.00 on CL. I'm pretty sure he left some old, unstabilized fuel in there and it turned into varnish.

I removed the top and back covers and dropped the fuel bowl. It looked like a bad batch of applesauce in there so I cleaned it out and shot the carb with carb cleaner and reinstalled the bowl. It fired up for a few seconds and then died. A good carb cleaning appears to be in order and I'm wondering if I can do this with the carb installed or is it easier/better to remove it from the engine (Suzuki 47P)? I've never removed a carb before but am mechanically inclined and would like to get this operational for next winter.

I remember Borat discussing a cleaning of the jets using wires to remove any build up inside that could cause fuel starvation. I have never done this so any suggestions or tips will be very much appreciated.

the fuel level in the carb must sit high enough that the emolsion tube sits in the fuel.. if not it will not run.

lm worried that the float is pinching the needle to tight and its not moving freely....or maybe its just full of junk where the needle and seat is?.

now IF the float was moving freely the engine would run on full throttle only..EVEN if every other orfices was plugged in the carb.....and we know that becase when frank sprays fuel into the throat of the carb its stays running....so if the MAIN JET isnt plugged (which frank says its clean) then that would CONFIRM that the fuel level in the carb isnt correct...and the only thing that controls fuel level is the the FLOAT & NEEDLE opeartion.

"then that would CONFIRM that the fuel level in the carb isnt correct...and the only thing that controls fuel level is the the FLOAT & NEEDLE opeartion."

Makes sense. 

That's why he should do a test with a piece of hose full of water attached to the fuel inlet to see if the float is operating correctly.   With the very slightest amount of upward pressure, it should seat the float needle.  Release the float and it should just drop allowing the water to flow down past the float needle. 

I agree that the engine should run at speed off of just the main jet.  If he can get the engine to run by injecting fuel into the venturi, and it doesn't run on it's own, there's probably no fuel in the float bowl. 

Got to wonder what's going on with this carb.  From the pictures, it looks like it should go.  However, we have not seen the needle seat. 

trouts, borat, nipper: I can't thank you guys enough for your guidance and insight with this project. The beers are on me when we finally get this finished! 

I had a busy day so I was not able to spend too much time on this today but here's where I'm at so far. I was able to remove (and not damage) the black plastic collar on the main jet tube - it was pretty nasty under there. I then removed the float and gave both areas a thorough cleaning. Pressed the seat inside where the needle sits but I think it needs to be replaced as it did not make too much of a difference from the first time I pressed it inward. The float when reinstalled still does not sit level no matter how much or hard I try to press the needle inward.

I also removed the black chunky gasket type component on the manifold end and was finally able to see and access the 3 mysterious holes that were eluding me. I gave them all a good dose of the bag tie wire and hosed everything down with copious amounts of carb cleaner. I reinstalled everything and got ready to fire her up!

Unfortunately, she would only stay running as long as I kept spraying fuel directly into the throat. VERY frustrating!!!! I can keep her going indefinitely if I'm spraying fuel in the throat.

What do you guys think - replace the needle seat and see what that does? I lost the little spring but as trouts stated and I agree, I don't think it makes much of a difference. The float seems to be restricted in terms of movement. It does not have a whole lot of free play and still feels kind of spring loaded which is why I'm thinking I should replace the seat and see what that does. To be honest, I'm almost thinking of replacing the carb completely but I've gone this far so replacing a few parts in hopes of getting this resolved is an acceptable option. I'd like to keep it original if at all possible.

On the bright side, we've got about another 7 months or so to get this problem resolved and I've gained a ton of experience!

Once again, I thank you guys for all your help.

Frank

if it was me frank l would replace the needle & seat and float just for peace of mind at this point.

What is the factory model number of your machine?  

When put back together, drain through the bowl to see if you get a decent flow.

You can keep it running by squirting in gas but can you now prime it to keep it running?

You should be able to prime many times and get gas in the throat.  If not and you have no air leaks which you don't then something is fuzzy in the needle area.

Is there a jet at the base of the center tube by the cutout part of the black collar?  It would be a small screw-in part.  That should be there and very clean.

I would verify float operation in a glass before I bought anything.   Also in the sink, put a small length of gas line on and fill the line with water when the blow is held up with your finger.  It should hold the water and when you drop the bowl flow freely.  Does that flow look about that you get when you drain with the gas drain on the bottom of the carb bowl?  It should be close.  You should be able to lift the carb up to let the float drop and get flow.  After putting the carb back into the water flow should stop.  The needle should never stick and what you want to look for.

When sitting in the glass on the glass rim you should be able to leave it for an hour with no leak. 

trouts: Model number is 38430, s/n  is 7908851. This indicates a 1997 date of manufacture.

The prmer bulb works mechanically, but will not provide fuel to the carb as it should. It is brand new as the original was missing so I bought and installed a new one. Not sure why the primer does not work as it should. The engine will stay running as long as I continue to spray fuel directly into the carb throat.

Look at the previously posted pictures of the carb tube base - I do not see any type of jet on or near the black plastic collar. The only one is located inside the tube and can be remove by backing it out like a screw. That is very clean and the orifices are open.

I'm going to replace the needle, needle seat and float as suggested by nipper and see if that cures the problem. It seems as though the fuel cannot get past these areas to feed the carb and keep her running. It's hard to see into the needle seat but it looks like the rubber is damaged in one area which may be causing the fuel feed problems. I assume that the cost of these parts is much less expensive than replacing the whole carb (+/- $100.00) so I'll take a chance and see what happens.

Question - how do I remove the seat without damaging the carb? It appears to be made of brass and rubber and is pressed into the hole where it belongs. Do I try and grap it with needle nose pliers or use a screw inserted into the opening and pull it out that way? Just not sure what is the best way to remove this so I can replace it.

Any other suggestions or thoughts are very welcome.

"The prmer bulb works mechanically, but will not provide fuel to the carb as it should." That's an awful big coincidence. Too big. I would find out why that's not working before doing anything else, it could very well be another symptom of why your carb isn't getting fuel.

FrankMA wrote:

Frank......in regards to the SEAT...if its brass then l usually never replace them...of course if looks damaged then yes l would replace it... if not just leave in...most important is the NEEDLE & FLOAT get replaced.....and make sure its VERY clean where the needle moves up and down spray carb cleaner in there and use a pick or small screwdriver with a rag and give a good clean just be careful not the scratch the carb.

as for the primer it will not squirt fuel in the carb if theres no fuel in the bowl. 

Well I downloaded the parts manual which has a great blow up and breakdown of the entire carb assembly. Called my local dealer and here's what the replacement costs are for the following:

Complete Carb Assembly..............................$ 163.34 (YIKES!!!)

Carb Rebuild Kit..............................................$  68.74

Needle Valve Seat Kit....................................$  28.64   DING...DING...DING - we have a winner here!

I'm pretty sure it's the o-ring inside the seat thats either all gummed up or damaged. It's very hard to see inside the seat area but from what I can see, the o-ring appears to be damaged or torn somehow. The parts guy said it can be removed by using a dental type pick or applying compressed air to the fuel inlet which will force out the seat. At any rate, I'm going to give this a shot and see if this solves the problem. This area seems to be the bottle neck in terms of fuel distribution so I'm confident that this may do the trick. I going to try and get to this in the next day or so and will keep you posted. Hopefully this will resolve the problem and I can get this operational and still be well under $100.00 for this gem.

FrankMA wrote:
Yowser!!!  If these prices are for Toro, I think parts for my Honda is pretty cheap in comparison.

I hope those at least includes assembly and warranty. 

No wonder why people go to big box stores and buy disposable OPE these days.

Sad thing is, there are people who would pay that much to get it fixed.

Sad thing is, there are people who gives away their snowblower to the local dealer.  That dealer puts in $50 worth of parts and labor to get it running, turns around and sell used for $300.

Sad thing is, there are people who think they're pretty smart for doing that. 

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, most of the time, it's going to cost you.  That's why it's always good to know just a little bit to be dangerous. 


Anyways, hope you get that machine fixed up ready to run for next winter.  It's good to see the progression of the troubleshooting and solutions.