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allenm


Joined: Dec 29, 2010
Points: 8

Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Original Message   Jan 19, 2011 2:07 pm
Toro will have a recall this summer (2011) for Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589).  The following problem affects models made in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  Toro has learned that Ethanol (used in all gas), is deteriorating aluminum parts within the carburetor.  These deteriorating parts break off inside the carburetor creating small fragments then clog areas inside the machine (ie. fuel line).  Gas will leak out of the snow blower into (ie. your garage).  The end result (gas leak) is similar to what happened on the Toro 180 power clear, but the problem is NOT the same.  Toro is aware of the problem and said they are working on a fix to be released this summer (2011) on the Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589) snow blowers. 
 
If anyone is having a gas leak now, the current fix is only temporary.
This message was modified Jan 19, 2011 by allenm
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Dr_Woof


Don't blow into the wind, and don't eat yellow snow. WOOF!

Location: Saskatchewan
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Points: 253

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #35   Jan 31, 2011 3:12 pm
longboat wrote:
Where are the facts to dispute my statements?  There's more than plenty of anecdotal evidence that 10% ethanol gasoline is absorbing water before it gets into the end-user's gas tank - never heard of water in the gasoline helping to get better mileage, and I'm sure many physicists would agree.  Maybe water injected AFTER the fact if you have a high-compression engine with variable timing that is designed to take advantage of water injection to reduce engine knock at high-compression ratios, but I don't know of any commercial engines that are specifically designed to do that, and the principle doesn't even work the same for water that is already IN the gasoline.  There's only one good way to burn water when it comes to IC engines.

It may not be as big of an issue in populated areas where filling stations go through fuel pretty fast with high turnover, but problems are pretty rampant at remote filling stations where the fuel may sit a few weeks or even months. 

As for facts to support wildlife habitat degradation?  If you don't believe me, ask any Wildlife Sciences professor at any university in the midwest or Great Plains, or any Wildlife Manager in those areas.  Or if you're like me and you have lived in this country all your life, you can see how much ground has been broken in the last ten years so farmers can take advantage of high grain prices - land that is highly-erodible, and land that has been in CRP since that program started in the 80's.  We're talking wetlands and uplands and steep hillsides - it's ridiculous.  Let the Wildlife Manager (or Ducks Unlimited) tell you about how loss of CRP results in fragmented habitat that has a compounding effect on contributing to game bird loss and lack of recruitment.   I could go on and on, but we've gotten pretty far off-topic already...


Yeah.   When I see what used to be hardwood forests where I hunted squirrels in my youth, many on steep hillsides, that are now turned into barren cornfields it almost makes me wanna cry!   Gotta be a better way.

CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #36   Jan 31, 2011 4:19 pm
aa335 wrote:
Thanks for the info.  I'll definitely add a shtut off valve sometime.  There's a little space at the bottom cover where the fuel tubing is visible, about 2 inches to the right of the carb and downstream of the fuel filter.

Installing a fuel shut-off in the visible tubing you are describing was a piece of cake.  A few bucks, 5 minutes or less of time for peace of mind.
Didn't fix anything since I don't have the problem yet. No ethanol used in any of my engines so I'm hoping I can make it to the recall without incident.
If it happens, my problem should be minimized.

As far as voiding any warranty, I discussed it with the mechanic at my Toro dealer before I did it. I also purchased the valve and two clamps from him.
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #37   Jan 31, 2011 4:21 pm
CharlesW wrote:
Installing a fuel shut-off in the visible tubing you are describing was a piece of cake.  A few bucks, 5 minutes or less of time for peace of mind.
Didn't fix anything since I don't have the problem yet. No ethanol used in any of my engines so I'm hoping I can make it to the recall without incident.
If it happens, my problem should be minimized.

As far as voiding any warranty, I discussed it with the mechanic at my Toro dealer before I did it. I also purchased the valve and two clamps from him.

Would you happen to have the part numbers or sizes I would need for the nipple and clamps?  I might go ahead and do it.
This message was modified Jan 31, 2011 by aa335
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #38   Jan 31, 2011 4:37 pm
aa335 wrote:
Would you happen to have the part numbers or sizes I would need for the nipple and clamps?  I might go ahead and do it.

Why would you go to a Toro dealership to get a valve?  You'll pay a million bucks for a $5.00 piece.  Go to any automotive outlet and buy a small plastic valve with 1/4" barbs and a couple tiny hose clamps.   I've seen some kits sold with a short length of line (12" or so) as well.  
CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #39   Jan 31, 2011 4:48 pm
aa335 wrote:
Would you happen to have the part numbers or sizes I would need for the nipple and clamps?  I might go ahead and do it.

No, I don't, but I think it was a pretty common  shut-off for 1/4" I.D. gas line.
Just a guess, but the clamps were probably 1/2" to 5/8". Chances are 1/4" gas line is pretty much a standard O.D.size.
Again, probably pretty common since he didn't need to look anything up.
CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #40   Jan 31, 2011 4:55 pm
borat wrote:
Why would you go to a Toro dealership to get a valve?  You'll pay a million bucks for a $5.00 piece.  Go to any automotive outlet and buy a small plastic valve with 1/4" barbs and a couple tiny hose clamps.   I've seen some kits sold with a short length of line (12" or so) as well.  
That's easy.
My local Toro dealer is part of a well stocked hardware store and their prices are quite competitive with the box stores. In fact, I paid less there for my 421 than Home Depot had them priced at.

The fact that I would have to drive about 7 miles round trip to possibly save a buck or two was also a factor.
Add to that, he had the parts and another store might or might not have had them.

aa335: No extra tubing is needed for this installation.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #41   Jan 31, 2011 5:10 pm
Well CharlesW, you're a luck guy.

The local Toro gouger in this town wants 400.00 more than HD for a 221QE!   A bolt that would cost fifteen cents at a hardware store will cost around $5.80 at the Toro gougership. 

I wish we had a dealership like yours......
CharlesW


Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #42   Jan 31, 2011 5:16 pm
Another reason why I try to support him.
Wal-Mart, Menard's, Home Depot are my last resort, only if he doesn't have the item.
He is an independent, but buys through the Ace Hardware Group and that seems to help him a lot in his buying power.
First class operation and when he retires, it will probably be closed.
This message was modified Jan 31, 2011 by CharlesW
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #43   Jan 31, 2011 7:37 pm
CharlesW wrote:
No, I don't, but I think it was a pretty common  shut-off for 1/4" I.D. gas line.
Just a guess, but the clamps were probably 1/2" to 5/8". Chances are 1/4" gas line is pretty much a standard O.D.size.
Again, probably pretty common since he didn't need to look anything up.

Thanks for the info.  I got all the parts I need.   They're going on the fuel line tonight.
Bill_H


Location: Maine
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Points: 354

Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #44   Jan 31, 2011 8:50 pm
aa335 wrote:
Thanks for the info.  I got all the parts I need.   They're going on the fuel line tonight.

Is your tank empty? It's actually more work to drain the tank and refill it than it is to install a shutoff. If you have gas in it, it might be easier to wait till it's empty.

But not in a blizzard!
This message was modified Jan 31, 2011 by Bill_H


Who the hell let all the morning people run things?
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