Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm considering updating from a 1993 Ariens ST824 to a newer machine.  Recently, I've been looking at a few Ariens Platinum and Pro models, a few of Simplicity's Large Frame and Pro models, the John Deere 1330SE, and the Toro 1128OXE, as well as used but recent models with a Tecumseh OHV engine or Briggs OHV.  Wheel and chute controls are an issue with a lot of people, so does anyone have experiences to share?

Differentials:

1)  Does anyone have experience with Ariens' "Automatic Traction Control or John Deere's 1330 SE differential ?  Does the Ariens know when to go to locked-wheel drive, or when to come out of it back to differential?  Will this design hold up after many years of usage?  Does the JD stay in differential mode, or does it have the locked-wheel option?  How do these blowers feel in operation?

2)  How does Simplicity's "Easy Turn" feature feel when turning left or right?  Don't you also have to stop the machine to go into and out of this mode ?

3)  Same questions about the Ariens Deluxe models with that left-hand trigger release feature.

Chutes:

1)  Then there are those new electric chute controls on the Simplicity Large Frame models and John Deere 1330SE.  Does anyone have any stories about these?

 2)  Toro has their "Quick Stick" feature, but how long can it last before the plastic parts break?

3)  Ariens' "Quick Turn" feature seems pretty nice, but I'm not sure about that cable release lasting long, and many guys have complained about having to constantly re-adjust it, or it flops around too much.  Also, the chute  deflector cable seems to freeze up a lot with some users.  Any comments here?

4)  Why can't Ariens just go back to a crank system that doesn't allow the chute to wander around at all?  Ariens, I hope you are listening.

 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
I'm wondering about Toro's extensive use of plastic for the 1028OXE as well as their other Power Max blowers with Quick Stick.  I've seen Toro's machines a number of times and always wonder about the long-term durability of the plastic dash and the associated plastic parts for the Quick Stick operation.  Then there are the plastic handles, and the plastic levers for the wheels and auger/impeller which of course have the cables extending down from them.  I honestly worry about the wires snapping off of those handles at some point.  Maybe my concerns are unfounded?  Perhaps the plastic used in all these areas is very durable.  It certainly won't rust.  The chute and housing plastic doesn't really bother me as it seems to be very durable in these areas.  Any thoughts? 

Actually, the Toro 1028OXE (I'd prefer the 1128OXE, but I don't like that  moving scraper bar idea) truly impresses me, but after my experiences with Ariens' steel build for so long (my 1993 ST824 , plus the ST1032 workhorses at my school job), I guess I naturally wonder about the plastic.  So far, no one seems to be complaining about Toro's plastic, and I haven't seen anyone mentioning problems so far.  But it's only been, what, about three years they've made these newer models?  Time is the only way to tell, I guess. 

Honda?  Well, it would be interesting to come across, say, a nice, used 928WAS wheeled model, but it would depend on the price.  One knock I have against Honda is that the wheels are permanently in a two-wheel locked setup.  I wish they would give us a lever to disengage the left wheel (like Simplicity, or Ariens Deluxe) for ease of turning and putting away the blower when done.

It's gonna be fun to see what I end up with, though. 

coasteray wrote:

The thing is many people worry about the plastic on the Toro's but you rarely hear of the plastic parts failing. You can be certain that if the plastic parts had even a moderate failure rate, it would be all over the Internet. Sure the cables do need to be adjusted every so often. That's just normal maintainance. This isn't el-cheapo plastic it holds up really well. I think people believe steel is better for everything. It certainly easier to sell people on the idea that steel is better because it's stronger. The thing is steel doesn't mix well with snow and ice compared to plastic. Although there is steel to support all the plastic pieces that Toro uses. Ariens and other companies know it's easy to sell people on steel. The thing is most people know nothing about steel, just taht's it's very strong and durable (not all steel is). I was a machinist for 15 years. I've worked with Steel, Aluminum and damn near every grade of both as well as many other materials including Copper (miserable stuff to machine) that was much tougher than your average steels. We also did a lot of work using materials that commonly get refered to as plastic. My father has over 50 years experience with materials and being a Master Tool & Die man knows his stuff. He can tell you what a material is from just looking at it. Some "plastics" are better for certain jobs than steel.

I'm not saying that steel machines are bad, just that it's easier to sell an all steel machine than one with any plastic due to the perception that plastic is cheap. Some plastics are pretty damn durable and expensive. The cast iron gear boxes are another easy sell. Dealers tell you how durable cast iron is. Well ok, but I've worked with Cast iron, we made products where we'd job out Cast Iron because we wanted cheap weight or bang for the buck pricing. Cast aluminum (probably a blend) is also cast. If my dad was up from FL I'd ask him what material they are casting the Toro gearbox with and how good it is. Casting is pretty common, look at a matchbox car, that's diecast. Casting is cheap, durable and if done correctly, well made. If done wrong or you get bubbles in the material it won't last.

Look at an Bridgeport Milling machine versus an Enco, the brunt of both machines is cast iron. Enco's are crap.

That said Ariens makes a good machine along with other brands. Honda is screwed together really well. I had one, but turning it is no fun as you say.

Once you get to a dealer and can test things out it's a lot easier to choose which is best for you. Ariens sells a LOT of machines every year, so they have to be doing something right. Toro also made in America sells a lot of machines also.

You know you got the right machine when you are happy to use it when the white stuff covers your driveway and you laugh at the plow as he pushes in another 18 inches of snowy, slushy, salty, grey and white crud at your EOD after you just finished clearing it.

I have no issues with plastic used on snow throwers.  In my twenty plus years of use with Craftsman machines I had no issues with the durability of the plastic chutes.  Keeping them on the machine was another thing.   I have no issues with steel chutes but I do have issues with them only being painted on the inside.  Fine for pure snow but not so good for eod deposits that contain gravel and salt.  To me, the best arrangement is a steel chute lined with plastic.  As with my modification and new Yamaha machines.  That way, you get the best of both worlds.

Heck, it's been 44 years since Dustin Hoffman was told that the future is "plastics" in The Graduate.

Plastic is often a superior material to metal in many applications: lighter weight, corrosion-free, naturally lubricated, tuned flexibility and can be equally as strong. In the steel vs plastic "quality perception"  department, I'm more inclined to go with the company using advanced plastics.

Toro's innovative impeller, housing, chute and controller in the very traditional snowthrower market (MTD for example), give me confidence that the plastic parts are well thought out also.

Last year I bought a Ariens Platinum 24, which I reviewed here and gave high marks to. I wrote that it's a great little machine with cool features like handwarmers, ATC for easy turning and a quick-rotating chute.

Now I have to point out one BIG flaw in the design-- the latching mechanism for the rotating chute is way too flimsy.  I was blowing snow a week or so ago, and the chute all of a sudden started to "free swivel" to the right under the force of the snow.  To keep the snow blowing left, I had to keep a hand continuously on the dashboard knob.

When I put the machine in the garage and removed the plastic cover of the latching mechanism, I could see that the little control arm (which engages with cogs that lock the chute into position) was made of flimsy bent metal.  The metal had distorted so that it didn't line up with the cogs.  By the way, I never (to my knowledge) abused the chute by forcing it against ice or anything.  My dealer gave me a replacement control arm and told me that this latching mechanism was a common problem for many customers.  Wish the sales guy had told me that!

Replacing the control arm was tricky and a big pain, since there's a tiny spring (shaped like a paper clip that you straighten and then wrap around a pencil) that has to be "pre-loaded" to apply tension to the control arm when it's engaged.  Getting this spring into position and keeping it there as I tightened the securing nut was very frustrating and difficult.

I called Ariens and spoke to a technical rep who told me that he had gotten feedback on this problem, but they hadn't devised a fix yet.  At the very least, they should cast this part so it can't distort, rather than use flimsy metal. Still, who knows what-- if anything-- Ariens will do?

I would advise buying the Deluxe version with the old-fashioned, but reliable, crank arm that turns the chute.  The Platinum's  traction control is nice, but the Deluxe 27 has a cable release on a wheel, which would make that model easy to turn, while avoiding the very finicky "quick rotating" chute that will no doubt continue to cause me problems.

amazer98,

    What it the factory model number of your machine?  I looked at the drawings for some 2010 chutes and can't see a latch in there.  Is the problem with the part in back of the chute or at the dash?   Can you post a picture? 

Amazer, I have the same set up on my Ariens.  It's an older deluxe model but a few years ago the deluxe came with the quick chute lever.  I've found that it's best to slightly lift up on the lever before moving it.  That ensures that it is fully unlocked prior to moving it.

Trouts, Unless Ariens changed it I believe that its the same set up that they used on model 926002

Is this the mechanism and where the problem is?  It looks like 10 turns the teeth on the top of 5 and 20 is the detent against the outer ring of teeth on 5.  Is 18 what has to be pre-wound?  It seems like 18 would just slip into 20, be captured by 21 and 6 run through 21 and be bolted on.  Is 20 stamped and should be the thing cast?

trouts2 wrote:
Hi Trouts,

Yes this is exactly the rig I have.  The culprit is the so-called control arm (#20).  The bottom of this arm (as depicted in the illustration) has to engage precisely with the cogs on the circumference of part #5.  It's a little hard to get a sense of this from the illustration, but when the control arm engages those cogs, it temporarily locks the chute into the position you want it to be at that moment.

Unless my control arm was distorted somewhat when it was installed in the factory(and therefore needed only a tiny bit more distortion to become ineffective), I found that just modest usage (perhaps 8-10 snowblowing sessions of one hour each) wore the control arm out so that I had to replace it.  When I removed my original control arm, the end that engaged the cogs was visibly splayed open (maybe just 1/16" or so... but enough so it wouldn't lock the chute).  The spring (part #18) was a $#%* to install, since one end has to press up against the inside of the bracket on top of the pole. You have to keep parts 6, 21, 20, and 19 aligned as you tighten nut #11... all the while with the spring loaded and pressed against the bracket.  If you back off the bracket momentarily, the spring snaps down and you have to try it again.  Not fun!

The spring is also too small-- it fits between the two flanges of the control arm with the protrusion of part #21 holding it in place... but it still has plenty of room to skew to one side, which is another frustration.

I could make a video of this, but that would mean taking the pieces apart first.  Can I simply video me smashing my thumb with a hammer?-- that would be less painful!

And... yes, #20 is the part I think should be cast.

I like my toro. Plastic is a non issue. If its strong enough for the beating that the ski's on a ski-doo take, its easily strong enough for the dash and chute of a snow blower. And it does have the benefits that it won't rust or clog.