Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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allenm
Joined: Dec 29, 2010
Points: 8
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Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Original Message Jan 19, 2011 2:07 pm |
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Toro will have a recall this summer (2011) for Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589). The following problem affects models made in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Toro has learned that Ethanol (used in all gas), is deteriorating aluminum parts within the carburetor. These deteriorating parts break off inside the carburetor creating small fragments then clog areas inside the machine (ie. fuel line). Gas will leak out of the snow blower into (ie. your garage). The end result (gas leak) is similar to what happened on the Toro 180 power clear, but the problem is NOT the same. Toro is aware of the problem and said they are working on a fix to be released this summer (2011) on the Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589) snow blowers. If anyone is having a gas leak now, the current fix is only temporary.
This message was modified Jan 19, 2011 by allenm
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aa335
 
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #32 Jan 31, 2011 2:52 pm |
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AA335:
Have you used ethanol fuel in your machine?
I haven't and I am hoping not using it might help avoid the problem until Toro issues a recall.
FWIW, I have a shut-off valve and two clamps that will be installed today. At least if the needle valve sticks, I won't flood my garage with gas or fill the engine crankcase with gas.
I think the fuel has 10% ethanol. I use Phillips 66 and Shell exclusively. In this area, I can't get ethanol free gasoline. I'll have to drive 80 miles south to the sticks to get ethanol free gasoline. Fuel shut off valve is one of list of mods to do. However, I'm holding off on that until Toro takes care of this fuel leak issue. I don't want to give dealers any reasons to deny my warranty. I leave the tank almost empty or dry after running it. That should minimize spillage. The less fuel you have in the tank, the less pressure the fuel have to push out. How can you fill the crankcase with gas?
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aa335
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #34 Jan 31, 2011 3:07 pm |
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"How can you fill the crankcase with gas?"
If the carb is higher than the crank case and in most cases, it is, the constant flow of fuel may flow from the float bowl up into the venturi of the carb, into the cylinder, leak past the rings and into the crank case. It's not an uncommon experience. Hasn't happened to me but I've read numerous accounts of it. Shut off valves are good.
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely add a shtut off valve sometime. There's a little space at the bottom cover where the fuel tubing is visible, about 2 inches to the right of the carb and downstream of the fuel filter. Both of the Honda have fuel shutoff, in addition to a thumb screw to drain the carb bowl. I kind of miss not having these conveniences on the Toro. Anybody mod their carb bowl to add the thumbscrew drain screw?
This message was modified Jan 31, 2011 by aa335
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Dr_Woof
Don't blow into the wind, and don't eat yellow snow. WOOF!
Location: Saskatchewan
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Points: 253
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Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #35 Jan 31, 2011 3:12 pm |
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Where are the facts to dispute my statements? There's more than plenty of anecdotal evidence that 10% ethanol gasoline is absorbing water before it gets into the end-user's gas tank - never heard of water in the gasoline helping to get better mileage, and I'm sure many physicists would agree. Maybe water injected AFTER the fact if you have a high-compression engine with variable timing that is designed to take advantage of water injection to reduce engine knock at high-compression ratios, but I don't know of any commercial engines that are specifically designed to do that, and the principle doesn't even work the same for water that is already IN the gasoline. There's only one good way to burn water when it comes to IC engines. It may not be as big of an issue in populated areas where filling stations go through fuel pretty fast with high turnover, but problems are pretty rampant at remote filling stations where the fuel may sit a few weeks or even months. As for facts to support wildlife habitat degradation? If you don't believe me, ask any Wildlife Sciences professor at any university in the midwest or Great Plains, or any Wildlife Manager in those areas. Or if you're like me and you have lived in this country all your life, you can see how much ground has been broken in the last ten years so farmers can take advantage of high grain prices - land that is highly-erodible, and land that has been in CRP since that program started in the 80's. We're talking wetlands and uplands and steep hillsides - it's ridiculous. Let the Wildlife Manager (or Ducks Unlimited) tell you about how loss of CRP results in fragmented habitat that has a compounding effect on contributing to game bird loss and lack of recruitment. I could go on and on, but we've gotten pretty far off-topic already... Yeah. When I see what used to be hardwood forests where I hunted squirrels in my youth, many on steep hillsides, that are now turned into barren cornfields it almost makes me wanna cry! Gotta be a better way.
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CharlesW
Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76
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Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #36 Jan 31, 2011 4:19 pm |
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Thanks for the info. I'll definitely add a shtut off valve sometime. There's a little space at the bottom cover where the fuel tubing is visible, about 2 inches to the right of the carb and downstream of the fuel filter.
Installing a fuel shut-off in the visible tubing you are describing was a piece of cake. A few bucks, 5 minutes or less of time for peace of mind. Didn't fix anything since I don't have the problem yet. No ethanol used in any of my engines so I'm hoping I can make it to the recall without incident. If it happens, my problem should be minimized. As far as voiding any warranty, I discussed it with the mechanic at my Toro dealer before I did it. I also purchased the valve and two clamps from him.
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CharlesW
Joined: Jan 9, 2011
Points: 76
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Re: Recall: Toro 421Q & 421QE (38588/38589)
Reply #39 Jan 31, 2011 4:48 pm |
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Would you happen to have the part numbers or sizes I would need for the nipple and clamps? I might go ahead and do it. No, I don't, but I think it was a pretty common shut-off for 1/4" I.D. gas line. Just a guess, but the clamps were probably 1/2" to 5/8". Chances are 1/4" gas line is pretty much a standard O.D.size. Again, probably pretty common since he didn't need to look anything up.
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