Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

fleetfoot wrote:

Maybe your numbers are true for a pure fresh ethanol blend, but most of this ethanol is getting old by the time it gets into most end-user gas tanks and has probably absorbed plenty of water by then - wonder what kind of energy/mpg we're talking about with water-saturated ethanol?  Anyway, energy potential is small potatoes compared to all the other big problems attributable to ethanol, like environmental degradation and significant loss of wildlife habitat (especially for upland-nesting gamebirds and ducks).

longboat wrote:
Where are the facts to support either of your statements?

I never said that ethanol was good or bad.  I just questioned Steve's statement about 15% ethanol gasoline resulting in a 15% reduction in fuel economy.

MN Runner  -  "  So is there a recall or not?  Is this just a hoax? "

....wondering the same thing

fleetfoot wrote:

Where are the facts to dispute my statements?  There's more than plenty of anecdotal evidence that 10% ethanol gasoline is absorbing water before it gets into the end-user's gas tank - never heard of water in the gasoline helping to get better mileage, and I'm sure many physicists would agree.  Maybe water injected AFTER the fact if you have a high-compression engine with variable timing that is designed to take advantage of water injection to reduce engine knock at high-compression ratios, but I don't know of any commercial engines that are specifically designed to do that, and the principle doesn't even work the same for water that is already IN the gasoline.  There's only one good way to burn water when it comes to IC engines.

It may not be as big of an issue in populated areas where filling stations go through fuel pretty fast with high turnover, but problems are pretty rampant at remote filling stations where the fuel may sit a few weeks or even months. 

As for facts to support wildlife habitat degradation?  If you don't believe me, ask any Wildlife Sciences professor at any university in the midwest or Great Plains, or any Wildlife Manager in those areas.  Or if you're like me and you have lived in this country all your life, you can see how much ground has been broken in the last ten years so farmers can take advantage of high grain prices - land that is highly-erodible, and land that has been in CRP since that program started in the 80's.  We're talking wetlands and uplands and steep hillsides - it's ridiculous.  Let the Wildlife Manager (or Ducks Unlimited) tell you about how loss of CRP results in fragmented habitat that has a compounding effect on contributing to game bird loss and lack of recruitment.   I could go on and on, but we've gotten pretty far off-topic already...

Well, it's happening to my two month old 421QE. Smelled gasoline in the garage this morning. Walked over to the Toro and found a small puddle of gas right below the carb bowl, gasoline was on the two crews on the bottom. Siphoned the tank will drain the carb bowl. Couldn't come at a better time since there's a big storm coming. At least I got another backup snowblower.

aa335 wrote:
These new Toro's are a piece of cake to work on.  Just lift the top off of it and trace the fuel leak.   When you find it, fix it.  I wouldn't be concerned about warranty either.  It's not like you're tearing the engine down and there's a very good chance you'll do a better job than the dealership. 

Yes, the 421Q is relatively simple machine.  The engine is larger than the two stroke on 221Q, but everything else is the same.  It is surprising to see how small that 2 stroke engine is.  Even though the snowblower is big, most of it is empty space.

I took the carb bowl off and removed the float and the needle valve.  Looks like some the needle plating has comes off and possibly preventing the needle from seating properly to shut off the fuel.  Cleaned as much as I can to get all the specks out, put everything back and refill the gasoline.  Start it back up.  Everything seems to be running fine, no leaks afterwards.  I only have a small amount of fuel in the tank but will keeping an eye to see if the leak occurs again.  We're expecting some good amount of snow the next two days so I want it to be at least operational. 

While I was poking around in there, I found the governor mechanism.  I can rig up a throttle control slider or similar to a soft spring and pull that governor arm to increase the RPM.  I will be a parallel spring to the existing one.  Basically increasing the spring rate.  Relatively simple,  the only thing is to find place to mount the cable/spring.  Probably will take on this mod at the end of winter season.

AA335:

Have you used ethanol fuel in your machine?

I haven't and I am hoping not using it might help avoid the problem until Toro issues a recall.

FWIW, I have a shut-off valve and two clamps that will be installed today. At least if the needle valve sticks, I won't flood my garage with gas or fill the engine crankcase with gas.

CharlesW wrote:
I think the fuel has 10% ethanol.  I use Phillips 66 and Shell exclusively.  In this area, I can't get ethanol free gasoline.  I'll have to drive 80 miles south to the sticks to get ethanol free gasoline.

Fuel shut off valve is one of list of mods to do.  However, I'm holding off on that until Toro takes care of this fuel leak issue.  I don't want to give dealers any reasons to deny my warranty. 

I leave the tank almost empty or dry after running it.  That should minimize spillage.  The less fuel you have in the tank, the less pressure the fuel have to push out.

How can you fill the crankcase with gas?

"How can you fill the crankcase with gas?"

If the carb is higher than the crank case and in most cases, it is, the constant flow of fuel may flow from the float bowl up into the venturi of the carb, into the cylinder, leak past the rings and into the crank case. It's not an uncommon experience.  Hasn't happened to me but I've read numerous accounts of it.  Shut off valves are good.