Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi,

I'm new here. I found this board recently. I heard something similar to the original poster about the Toro 421. I called two local dealers here in northeast Ohio yesterday to inquire about the 421Q. I'm debating between a 221 and a 421 myself. They both said they couldn't sell what they had on the floor until they received their repair kits from Toro. They both had the same story. The aluminum parts in the carb were being "eaten" by ethanol and that the plating on the needle valve was too "thin" to handle it which was causing it to flake off and clog the carb, thus causing it to leak. The repair kit consisted of a new needle valve, seat, and fuel line. Both dealers advised me to put a fuel shutoff valve on the snowblower if I bought it, which I would do on my own anyway.

Should I let these problems with the 421Q scare me away from it? I was leaning toward the 221Q but the significant other likes to do the driveway too when I'm away and has been complaining about "having another one that makes us stink from using it" and "having to mix the gas". Not like that's hard to do but she always complains about it.

Breather wrote:
Either the 221Q or the 421Q is a good snowblower.  The 221Q has been around with the same proven engine for years so most people feel comfortable with it.

I wouldn't let the problems of the 421Q prevent you from buying one.  The fuel leak problem isn't as big as it seems.  You can put on a shut off valve easily to mitigate or lessen the leakage so it won't be hazardous.  You can choose to run the engine with the shut off valve closed until it stops so that there's no chance of any fuel leaking past the carb bowl.  The 421Q is a fine machine and I'm very impressed with the engine performance. 

Can your wife deal with potential fuel leak of the 421Q stinking up the garage from the fuel leak?  How comfortable is it for her to deal with a seeing a puddle of fuel on the floor?   What will she do?  Not use the snowblower and shovel by hand?

As far as the stink, you can get synthetic 2 cycle oil that has virtually no odor.  For the having to mix the gas, who's the one mixing?  If she's complaining about the mixing that she never does, that's a moot point.  You can have the gas mixed for her while you're away so only the "stink" issue remains.

There's always pros and cons.  Fortunately, the cons are easy to deal with.

As Pepe Le Pew would say.....

Stink?  What stink? 

Personally, I like the smell of two cycle exhaust.  It reminds me of my youth racing two stroke enduro machines through the bush! 

Nothing like the smell of 2 cycle on your clothes after a long day....  you know you got something done... (smells great)

Friiy

Thanks for the replies guys. I like the two-cycle smell myself. I had a Lawn-Boy two-cycle mower for years as did the neighbor behind me. I spent close to twenty years of my life smelling the aroma every mowing season. Not to mention gas trimmers, edgers, etc. I can only imagine the complaining I would have had to endure had she been in my life then, lol.

I mix the gas quite often but, believe it or not, she does take charge and gets it done herself when we run out and I'm not home. I'll just tell her that if I decide I'm going with a two-cycle, I'll deal with it all the time. Out of curiousity, how much does the synthetic mitigate the smell and smoke on a two-cycle?

I talked to another dealer today who told me that the repair kit was not solving the issue on all of them(421) and for those still affected Toro was then sending replacement carbs, which haven't completely solved the issue either. He said that he talked to Toro tech service two days ago and they supposedly have yet another carb that supposedly solves the problem once and for all. He claimed that next season, there will be no two-cycle snowblowers and only 4-cycles will be available and all of those will have the newest carb and supposedly, trouble-free...

Breather wrote:
It would be interesting to know just what the problem really is.
First it was plating flaking off the needle. (Blamed on ethanol)
Then it was the needle and seat
Next it was a need for a replacement carburetor
Now it is a need for yet a different carburetor

Do you get the idea that they really don't have a clue as to what the problem really is?

Extending the warranty for at least another year would go a long way in restoring my faith in Toro.
If the problem is truly corrected, what do they have to lose?

No more two stroke Toros?

Blasphemy I say.  Blasphemy!!!!!

End of an era.   Pathetic.

CharlesW wrote:
It's probably not as widespread of a problem and they may not have captured all the failures yet, so the fixes will be case by case basis from the service dealers.  Also, there's a lead time for replacement parts, with the proper solution to the root cause.

I'd wait for the dust to settle before bringing it in.  Trigger happy fixes causes confusion and money.  I'm sure they'll get the fix.

I doubt that Toro will extend the warranty.  I remember they used to have 5 year GTS warranty.  Now it's only 2 years.  If there's a problem with the carb, it will be covered under the recall.  No one is getting a free ride on other components because of carb issues. 

aa335 wrote:
I'm not looking for a "free" ride. I paid $800 for that ride and I would just like to get my money's worth.
Some owners are in their second year of this problem and are still waiting for "the fix".
If Toro replaces the carburetor for those owners this summer, the warranty will expire not long after.
What if this "fix" is like the previous ones and the problem still exists?
What recourse do those owners have then?

borat wrote: Don't put all the blame on Toro.
From what I have read, the problem lies with emission standards and not necessarily with any decisions the manufacturers wanted to make.
It is happening or has happened to outboard motors and motorcycles already.
I also understand it is spreading to other OPE products such as trimmers and chainsaws.