Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE.  One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C.  He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold.  He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it.  Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out.  Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE?  This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.

aa335 wrote:
Welcome to winter in Saskatchewan!

All I can say is that the 2 stages around me are working fine and my neighbour's Honda HS 621 is purring along nicely.  I have an old BobCat snowblower that Noah brought over on the Ark that ran and started fine this morning.

When you flip the 221 over, one can see that the air pick up is right on the ground.

I have a Stihl MS440 chainsaw that has a heated coil (ran off a magneto on the flywheel) for the carb designed for winter use.  Wonder why Toro didn't take the same approach?  Even some metal shielding would help.

Oh well.

saskwinter wrote:

Thank you.

AFAIK, Husqvarna puts out pretty much the same machine through their various brands when you are looking at this particular 208 cm3 single-stage unit, whether it is badged as a Poulan PRO, McCulloch or Craftsman. The same machine with electric start in Craftsman guise comes "on sale" once in a while for CA$400.

borat wrote:

That sounds almost like the Honda dealer I dealt with, at least as far as prices. They don't really care if you buy it or not. But I don't think that's the fault of Honda or in your case Toro. Some dealers are just awful and I refuse to give them any business no matter what brands they sell.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Steve, I know that this is a recall on the Power Clear 180 but wondering if the ethanol in the gas is also causing the same type gas leak in the 421.

jackrabbit000 wrote:

Now that is a good question. I would think the gas tanks have to be rated for 10% ethanol but maybe the Chinese company making it used the wrong epoxy or something?

I don't know if the gas tank is made in China but probably is if it's a Loncin.

You might also be worrying too much. I mean you can only do so much research before you drive yourself nuts. At some point you have to decide on brand type and size and make the best decision you can with the info you have available. Nothing is perfect, not the 221Q/421Q,, not my 2 Stage Toro , not aa335's Honda and not even Rubinew's Yamaha. However for the needs that we have, we all bought what we felt was the best machine for our situation. I would not want to deal with Tracks tring to do my EOD nor would I want a really wide bucket as the angle there would leave a LOT of snow. Rubinew couldn't use my Toro or that 421Q because he has to deal with densely packed wind blown snow. aa335, well he has a garage full of various machines to do various jobs, most of us can't do that.

Your sistuation you need/want a single stage blower and Toro does make a great single stage (their 2 stages are awesome too!) in the end you have to figure out what do you want, are you comfortable with the purchase? You should buy what you feel is the best machine for your situation and one that you can afford without breaking the bank. Maybe you should look at a small 2 stage model or something? Everyone here can give advice and we all have opinions and our favorite machines. But in the end you vote for your favorite machine with your wallet.  So worrying about will it leak or break or something, who knows, chances are it won't but that's why these machines have warranties, in case they do break.

jackrabbit000 wrote:
The gas leak in the PC180 has nothing to do with the 421Q.  They are different engines, parts, and production dates.  If anything, Toro would make sure that the widespread problem of the PC180 is not duplicated in 2011 production.  Toro has pretty much captured the market share for single stage.  Widespread blunders like the gas leak costs a lot to rectify once the 221/421 units get out in the field.  Not to mention the liability for personal injury and property damage.

I'm with Steve on this one.  You can only worry so much about it, not one product is perfect.  It can be, but it would costs too much, but the engineers would not stop working on it, and you won't get to buy one until the marketing folks shoot the engineers. 

If you don't have faith in Toro product, well, there's Honda.  The HS520 has been around for a while, most bugs have been worked out.  Except the occasional component supplier change that may occur every so often.  Keep a spare carburetor on hand.

I assume that you are interested in the 421Q because you favor the 4 stroke, quick chute, and the good reviews.  Toro must have done something right to get your interest.  What else is out there comparable? 

I know that I've grumbled about my 221, but when it's working, it's really impressive.  I think that the 421 might be a great fit for you living in Alberta.  Given our temperatures, I cannot recommend the 221, however.  It just can't take the "extreme" (-25 to -35) cold we get here.