Abby’s Guide > Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) > Discussions > Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions |
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Original Message Jan 10, 2011 7:34 pm |
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I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE. One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C. He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold. He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it. Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out. Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE? This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.
This message was modified Jan 10, 2011 by jackrabbit000
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aa335
 
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #10 Jan 11, 2011 1:35 am |
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I was thinking the same thing, great minds think alike I guess.  But honestly a dealer saying a 4 stroke Toro is hard to start? That just doesn't make sense at all. That's like the Honda dealer telling me The Honda Fit is reliable (I have 2 of them) but the Civic isn't. The dealer must have overstocked the 2 strokes. It'll be interesting to see what Toro says about it. I'm a bearer of good news. If I feel that a product has exceeded my expectation, it's worth giving credit where it's due. Doesn't make sense to me either. That dealer is iffy and I would not buy from them. NO dealer should use FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) within the product lines that they sell. Just bad practice and I'm sure Toro would not tolerate that.
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mml4
Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #13 Jan 11, 2011 6:39 am |
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Jack-I bought a Toro 2450 2 stroke a few years back and have been tremendously impressed with it's reliability and utility. Absolutely not finicky at all and if you use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in your mix no detectable smoke or smell. I think weight is important in a paddle drive machine (lighter being more desirable) and therefore would go with the 221 as opposed to the 421 as I assume the four cycle variant is a heavier machine. In addition the four stroke Loncin (Chinese) engine is new in the Toro line and doesen't have a track record. Which ever machine you buy see if Toro is putting a fuel shut off on them. If not see if the 221/421 still has that little window of open space on the lower right hand corner as you face the machine as they did on the 2450-3650 series . If so buy yourself the standard gas shutoff valve and 2 spring fuel clamps and install the valve in the fuel line in the afore mentioned space. I don't know why it isn't mandatory to have a fuel shutoff on all ope. Marc
This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by mml4
SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
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FrankMA
Location: Merrimack Valley/Northeastern Mass
Joined: Jul 1, 2010
Points: 587
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #14 Jan 11, 2011 7:08 am |
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Which ever machine you buy see if Toro is putting a fuel shut off on them. If not see if the 221/421 still has that little window of open space on the lower right hand corner as you face the machine as they did on the 2450-3650 series . If so buy yourself the standard gas shutoff valve and 2 spring fuel clamps and install the valve in the fuel line in the afore mentioned space. I don't know why it isn't mandatory to have a fuel shutoff on all ope. Marc You have to wonder why they don't just include a fuel shutoff as a standard feature for the few extra $$$'s it would cost????
Toro Wheel Horse 522xi GT, Honda HS928TA, Honda HS621AS, Honda HS520A, Toro CCR3000 (work in progress), Honda HS624WA (sold 08/23/2010), Stihl BR550 Backpack Blower, Stihl MS250, McCulloch MS1635, Honda EM6500SX Generator
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #15 Jan 11, 2011 1:37 pm |
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jackrabbit, Don't you guys get a lot of snow in Alberta, Canada so given that is Toro 421QE or 221QE good big enough? Sounds like you need a Toro 1028 or 1128. We got a big dump of snow this weekend about 15". It gets really cold here but we don't usually get much at all. Supposed to be around -20C for a high all week.
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #16 Jan 11, 2011 1:39 pm |
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I was thinking the same thing, great minds think alike I guess. But honestly a dealer saying a 4 stroke Toro is hard to start? That just doesn't make sense at all. That's like the Honda dealer telling me The Honda Fit is reliable (I have 2 of them) but the Civic isn't. The dealer must have overstocked the 2 strokes. It'll be interesting to see what Toro says about it. I have the feeling that they are overstocked on the 221Q/QE's and just wanted to move them. It just doesn't make sense to me at all especially when Toro has the 2 year GTS. But, doesn't hurt to post it to see what everybody else says.
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jackrabbit000
Joined: Jan 10, 2011
Points: 15
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #17 Jan 11, 2011 1:42 pm |
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I'm no expert but isn't it because the engine oil in a 4 stroke engine on sub zero days can get thick enough to make it hard to get the motor up to speed by pull starting? That's why thinner oil is recommended the colder it gets. Two strokes have no such issues since there is no crank case oil to thicken-up. This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage. Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about.
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aa335
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434
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Re: Toro Power Clear 221QE and 421QE Starting When Really Cold
Reply #18 Jan 11, 2011 2:58 pm |
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This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage. Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about. Hmm...my Honda HS621 has decompression for starting and never had problem with the cold in an unheated garage. Seems like either he wants to move the 221Q due to overstock condition or that he count on uninformed users to forget adding oil to gasoline and toasting a 2 stroke engine so that he can make additional $ from out of warranty service. :)
This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by aa335
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