Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE.  One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C.  He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold.  He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it.  Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out.  Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE?  This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.

Update....It was -31 this morning and the machine (after using the blow dryer for 5 minutes) froze up during operation (no power).  Back to the garage for another blow dryer session.  Toro could care less.  My dealer (mom & pop type) are apologetic, but have no answers.

I wold not recommend this machine for anyone living in the prairie provinces- especially if you don't have a heated garage.

The depressing part is- when it works, it fabulous....when it works....

All the Dale Carnegie courses in the world could not get Toro to give a hoot!

Sorry to step on your thread, jackrabbit.

I have purposely avoided buy anything Toro due to the Company's and the dealerships hubris.  From my experience with the local Toro dealership,  I've seen nothing but arrogance and outright disrespect for customers.   When the local Husqvarna dealership closed down, the Toro dealership absorbed their business.  I had the misfortune of being left with no choice but to buy a riding mower belt and an air filter from the Toro dealership.  I needed the items right away and nobody else had anything in stock.  Not only were the prices outrageous, the demeanor of the staff was insulting.  They seemed take some perverse joy in seeing the price shock from customers.  They actually laughed and made jokes about the prices.   When I questioned why the price of the air filter was almost three times that of the price at a box store,   they laughed and said "Wait until you see the price of the belt!"   Now if that isn't arrogance, I don't know what is.   I have not and will not ever buy a Toro or an Ariens or anything else from that dealer.  Ever!  I'll cut the grass with a pair of scissors first. 

saskwinter wrote:
Under those conditions, I wonder if any other machine would have the same issues? 

joed wrote:

I am not waiting for the price drops any longer on the CA$607.50+tx Toro 221QE that I am sitting on, brand new in its factory sealed box. Back to HD it goes. Walmart just swapped out my Poulan PRO PR521 136 cm3 unit last night for a brand new Poulan PRO PR621ES with electric start and 208 cm3 motor.  (There were some false advertising and packaging issues that WM & supplier made good on.)

All said and done, this Poulan cost me merely CA$236.88+tx, or 39% of the Toro's cost.  Makes it hard to justify the costlier Toro when the Ariens is the main machine anyways.

I hope that the Poulan provides you with years of trouble free service.  Does Husky have a comparable model in their line-up, yet?

aa335 wrote:
Welcome to winter in Saskatchewan!

All I can say is that the 2 stages around me are working fine and my neighbour's Honda HS 621 is purring along nicely.  I have an old BobCat snowblower that Noah brought over on the Ark that ran and started fine this morning.

When you flip the 221 over, one can see that the air pick up is right on the ground.

I have a Stihl MS440 chainsaw that has a heated coil (ran off a magneto on the flywheel) for the carb designed for winter use.  Wonder why Toro didn't take the same approach?  Even some metal shielding would help.

Oh well.

saskwinter wrote:

Thank you.

AFAIK, Husqvarna puts out pretty much the same machine through their various brands when you are looking at this particular 208 cm3 single-stage unit, whether it is badged as a Poulan PRO, McCulloch or Craftsman. The same machine with electric start in Craftsman guise comes "on sale" once in a while for CA$400.

borat wrote:

That sounds almost like the Honda dealer I dealt with, at least as far as prices. They don't really care if you buy it or not. But I don't think that's the fault of Honda or in your case Toro. Some dealers are just awful and I refuse to give them any business no matter what brands they sell.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Steve, I know that this is a recall on the Power Clear 180 but wondering if the ethanol in the gas is also causing the same type gas leak in the 421.

jackrabbit000 wrote:

Now that is a good question. I would think the gas tanks have to be rated for 10% ethanol but maybe the Chinese company making it used the wrong epoxy or something?

I don't know if the gas tank is made in China but probably is if it's a Loncin.

You might also be worrying too much. I mean you can only do so much research before you drive yourself nuts. At some point you have to decide on brand type and size and make the best decision you can with the info you have available. Nothing is perfect, not the 221Q/421Q,, not my 2 Stage Toro , not aa335's Honda and not even Rubinew's Yamaha. However for the needs that we have, we all bought what we felt was the best machine for our situation. I would not want to deal with Tracks tring to do my EOD nor would I want a really wide bucket as the angle there would leave a LOT of snow. Rubinew couldn't use my Toro or that 421Q because he has to deal with densely packed wind blown snow. aa335, well he has a garage full of various machines to do various jobs, most of us can't do that.

Your sistuation you need/want a single stage blower and Toro does make a great single stage (their 2 stages are awesome too!) in the end you have to figure out what do you want, are you comfortable with the purchase? You should buy what you feel is the best machine for your situation and one that you can afford without breaking the bank. Maybe you should look at a small 2 stage model or something? Everyone here can give advice and we all have opinions and our favorite machines. But in the end you vote for your favorite machine with your wallet.  So worrying about will it leak or break or something, who knows, chances are it won't but that's why these machines have warranties, in case they do break.