Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

For every new engine I ever purchase, whether in a new car or a lawnmower I change the oil after just a few hours of use.  I learned to do this because a new  engine wears in and creates small metal particles that cause excess wear if they are not removed from the engine, and even in new cars with oil filters the filter is limited in how small the particles it can trap.  In the case of my New Honda GX 270 engine that powers my Honda Snowblower, I ran the machine for about 2 hours, then drained and refilled the engine with 100% synthetic oil.  When the oil was visible in the drain pan it was grey in color from the large quantity of metal wear particles suspended in the oil.   I will probably wait another 4 to 6 hours of operation before doing another oil change.   Considering that the expensive new engine only requires a little more than 1 quart of oil, and it has no oil filter, it seems a prudent investment to add these very early oil changes to the maintenance regimen of a new engine.   Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours.  Based on the evidence of the metal in the oil, I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change.  

I'm curious how others feel about this.

Kinda like turning the volume up to 11

Ther are quite a few Tim Taylor homebrews out there that have some interisting points of view over the the use of synthetic vs. conventional oils.

My personal approach is to use what the manufacturer recommends while the engine is under warrantee and afterwards I switch to a synthethic oil. The reason is self evident.

 There are quite a few factors why conventional as well as synthenthic oils break down and regardless of what our resident genius's say about changing your oil less frequently with synthetics you should always be changing your the oil at or before the manufacturers recommended maintinance intervals.  Changing your oil is and always will be a key player in maintaining a long healthy engine life.

1. Carbon, which is a byproduct of combustion and why the oil turns black.

2. Impurities from wear and tear on internal engine components.

3. Moisture from condensation which is most common in engines that sit for long periods where the temperature fluctuates.

4. Fuel (conventional oil will break down much faster than it will with a synthetic since they are both petrolium products)

5. Heat (conventional oils break down extremely fast as compared to synthetics.)

6. Contamination (dirt)

A simple way to tell if the oil in your internal combustion engine has lost it's lubricating value is to put some oil between your thumb and index finger and rub your fingers together. If you can feel your fingers the lubricating value of the oil has been diminished and it should be changed. If it is black and feels gritty or smells burnt, change it. Additionally, if it smells like gasoline I would recommend changing it.

Starwarrior

I'm a gona buy me one of them there V12Ferrari snowblowers and break it in with mobile1, yep thats a what i'm a gona do.

"you should always be changing your the oil at or before the manufacturers recommended maintinance intervals. "

So, why use an oil two to five times the price when much less expensive oil will do the same job at a fraction of the cost?   The main benefits of synthetic oil is extended service duration and extreme heat resistance.  Neither of which are common demands of OPE engines.   Even cheap dino oil will provide sufficient engine protection for 25 to 50 hours in an OPE engine.  Synthetic oil has it's applications.  Being used in engines with short cycle oil change intervals isn't one of them.  It's a waste of good oil. 

Don't forget that conventional oil has been lubricating gasoline and diesel powered engines  the world over for 120 years or so.  The advent of synthetic oil hasn't rendered it useless.  Not by a long shot.   When the price of synthetic oil is equal to that of conventional oil, I'll advocate it's use.  Until then, I'll maintain that it's a waste of money in all but the most stringent applications.

carlb wrote:

Just as the 100% sythetic oil had enormous benefit in Jet aircraft engines, most of that transferred to internal combustion engines.  As to the alloys used in piston rings, bearings in engines, you would be wrong in imagining that the factories that make piston rings or bearings for a car or truck don't make the piston rings for your lawnmower, they do.  No one would incur the expense to use a different alloy in some and not all.  Just because a small one cylinder engine has not the complexity of a water cooled automobile engine changes nothing.  An air cooled 1 cylinder engine may well become hotter than the thermostat in the water cooled engine would permit, making the high temperature resistance of 100% synthetic oil even more critical in such an air cooled engine.  Besides the engine in my Honda snowblower is worth about a thousand dollars, and we're talking about one quart of oil.  I'm not just not gonna use a lesser oil and risk that investment for a few extra bucks.  Obviously you are comfortable doing that, and I am not.  We disagree.  Have a nice day.

borat wrote:

And we are talking a WHOLE ENTIRE QUART of oil here so you can save 2 maybe even 3 Dollars by not using the better oil !

There are reasons why a synthetic oil can endure a longer change interval, it mainly has to do with how much better the 100% synthetic oil resists breaking down from, heat and contamination by burning fuels, as well as the oil performing well before the engine heats it up in cold climates when conventional 'Dino' oils are still thick from the cold. 

Actually I don't really care how you maintain your engine, but anyone wanting the best protection should pay a few extra bucks each year and use what everyone knows is a better product with better product performance 100 % Synthetic Oil.  The Honda snowblower cost 3 grand, and a quart of sythetic oil is what ?  $ 5.00 bucks ?  Engage the Brain here or Not, your choice.  There's a reason jet engines can't operate of conventional dino oils, these are NOT the same product.

New_Yorker wrote:

What model snowblower has a jet engine on it? You did mention Jet engines and while those should use synthetic oil. I don't have a jet engine on my Toro, so I'll stick with Dino oil. Oil will not break down in operating a snowblower for 25 hours a year. Dealing with the cold is more about viscosity and Dino oil is also rated for viscosity. By all means buy synth if you want to but there isn't any benefit on a machine with such low operating times.

" the engine in my Honda snowblower is worth about a thousand dollars,"

In your mind maybe.  Here's a link to help you with a bit of a reality check:

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=GX240-Pulley&desc=Honda%20Engine%20%208hp%20Horizontal%20Shaft%20with%20Pulley,%20Muffler,%20Recoil%20Start,%20Fuel%20Tank

borat wrote:

Borat,

But that one is just a plain old honda GX engine,  not the Jet Powered GX version

I am stuck on a plane in TO, so I am posting this message with phone. If you google 'synthetic oil and small engines' you will find several links to sites and pdfs regarding oils in small engines! Quick summary: Most engine manufacture do state that you can use synthetic oil in there engines, however some do recommend that you break to motor in with conventional oil first! Manufactures do warn of increased oil leaks with synthetic, and recommend changing synthetic oil at same intervals, because of dirt and contaminates. Most sites and forums confirm plug fouling, caused by synthetic oil getting past rings, but not burning off as easily as dino oil. The recommended time to break in a small engine with dino oil in 50 hours, this was writen by a professor and engineer. My conclusions! Yes, you can use synthetic oil, but break the engine in first with dino oil!! Since you have to change at the same frequency, and there are other risks than can arise from synthetic use (I like my oil to stay in the engine) I do not see any value in using synthetic oil for the application of a snow blower! Please excuse typos, I am using a phone, very hard to read the tiny print!!!