Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I had some fun looking at Honda Japan and saw the specifications for HS970i.  It uses GX340 instead of GX270 (HS928, HS970).  The HS970i is a heavy and strong machine and every bit as beautiful as the BLUE machine.  I am just wondering if Honda uses 340CC for that model, why is YS928 only using 250CC engine?  100CC is a huge difference.  Too me, Yamaha YS928 may be underpowered. 

MN_Runner wrote:

Not sure what the 970i is, but the HS928TCD from Honda Canada comes with GX270. This compares with the Yamaha YS928J which is 251cc. Both are 28 inch Augers, but the Yamaha uses and Electromagnetic clutch to drive the Auger. Then again the Yamaha is 100lbs more than the Honda. So it might be that Yamaha is making more effecient use of HP.

I can tell you that when I tested the YT624EDJ, with 171cc motor, this unit went thru packed ice and snow, ~20 inches deep, without a problem. This unit weighs 260lb, so same as the 928 Honda.

So the extra 80cc is to help eat 4 more inches of Auger width, plus drive the extra 100lbs of weight. I think it will be fine, but I will let you know when I can finally take one for a test drive

I really doubt that Yamaha 250CC is more efficient than Honda 250CC or B&S for that matter.  These guys know how to get the most power out of their engines. 

You can see Honda HS970i by going to the website below (I do not know Japanese):

http://www.honda.co.jp/snow/products/hss970i_1170i.html

BTW: Honda HS970i weighs 360 LB very similar to Yamaha YS928.  There must be a good reason why Honda upgraded the engine from nomial 270CC to 340CC for the HS970i model, which is about 100 LB heavier than HS970 (comparable to HS928 models).

Initially, I thought that the Yamaha engine sizes might lead to their machines being a bit under powered.  Then I thought about it for a while.

I doubt very much that the Yamaha models in question are Yamaha's first attempt at building a snow blower.  

Superior mechanical efficiency will allow for competitive performance with less engine size/power.  Think of  large North American auto engines vs. smaller Japanese auto engines both making the same power.  Why does a smaller Japanese engine make the same power as the larger North American engine?  Better design, balance and closer manufacturing tolerances are the main reasons.  Not saying the Honda engine is shabby.  I'm certain that the larger Honda engine will deliver considerably more power.   However, the Yamaha 250cc engine might just be all that's needed in a more energy efficient machine.

I'd be willing to bet that the Yamaha will be more than capable at doing what it's designed to do, even with a smaller engine.   It would be embarrassing if the smaller Yamaha engine outperforms the larger Honda unit, won't it?  

borat wrote:
Shhhhhh! Don't say that too loud - there's a lot of Honda nuts out there......

I like nuts whether they are blue, red, yellow, green or orange.  The law of physics does not favor neither Honda nor Yamaha.  These two are fine and efficient machines, I really doubt Yamaha has unlocked new locomotion technology that others have yet to discover. 

MN_Runner wrote:

I am sure the Yamaha and Honda are very similar, but then, we can only speculate.

But these are just the engines, what about clutches, belts, gears, ratios, bearings, etc.

The whole package and engineering behind the package is what delivers the final outcome.

That 6 hp Yamaha that I took for a test drive chewed ice and threw way further than my 8hp MTD.

The Yamaha YS928J is the only Yamaha model listed that does not use a belt to drive the Auger, electro magnetic clutch, does that help? Maybe?,  I am not an Engineer!

Engine displacement is not always a representation of final HP either, look at all the small car engines producing massive HP.

The truth will be in the test drive,

Oh, and here is an exerpt from the Canada Web Site:

The first Yamaha snowblower made its debut in 1978, and have been in production in Japan ever since. Yamaha snowblowers have evolved to meet the demands of Canadian consumers, featuring new technologies and improved features, making them more efficient and easier to use than ever before.

We’ve been in the snowblower business for 32 years. Here’s a little insight into our past:

• 1978 Launch of the first snowblower, YT665
• 1980 First single stage YSM250
• 1982 YSM555 debut
• 1983 First commercial model YT1090
• 1985 Debut of the 8hp YT875
• 1988 First electric chute, variable speed trans. SA560E
• 1996 First OHV engine and Hydrostatic trans. YT660E
• 1999 “Shear bolt guard system” intro.
• 2001 First silent model, electromagnetic clutch and auto choke YS870J
• 2003 Fully automatic silent model YS1390AR
• 2009 YU240 first dual stage sled and wheel style / Easy turn system intro.
•     4 Stroke Enigine  Powered by a proven durable and efficient 250cc, 4-stroke, air-cooled, OHV Yamaha engine. Serving up excellent fuel economy, so clearing your driveway won't break the bank. We've also added our low oil level protection for increased peace of mind. And the sound muting design of the large muffler is quiet for those early morning jobs!

Considering the YS928J is advertised as "The Flagship of Yamaha Blowers" I expect this blue beast to perform!!!

rubinew wrote: .

I would agree with this.  I know my jeep with the tall 3.21 gears is very underpowered, and I have to downshift to fourth gear if i am going uphill!  But a lot of people swap in 4.1 or up to 5.38 gears in the axles and they get much much better "power" with the same dodge caravan engine.  I shudder at what gas mileage they are getting though :)  You can't mess with the laws of physics, but there are always tradeoffs.

-dan

You got me!  I am just envious of your new toy which you are about to purchase.  Go Blue!

MN_Runner wrote:

Yeah, if they can get one in, spoke to the Dealer today, Yamaha told him not till early February.

He is contacting Dealers in other Provinces to see if they have stock and can send him some.

Sure, I had to pick a model that everyone else in the Country want!!

From what I gleaned from going to the Honda website and having google translate it from Japanese to English...I think that the Hybrid Hondas use the gas engine to power the augers AND also use the engine to generate electricity to power a separate electric motor that drive the tracks. 

Me too!!! I want a Yami bad. Keeping them in Canada for now will save me some cash... BC isn't that far to me go get one though..... MN_Runner wrote:

I don't know the specifics of the new Yamaha blowers (I have tried to get the info) but I can tell you that the earlier generation of Yamaha blowers imported into the North American market employed a gear reduction and drove the blower off the cam shafts. There was 2 for one ratio that created a lot of torque.  I was trying to repower an old Yamaha when I discovered this. Reminded me of those small 5hp Bobcat snowblower setups. That is why the yamaha pulleys are all off-set to one side unlike the Honda blowers from the same era. There is a striking difference between the Honda and Yamaha designs.  I would be interested to know if the new Yamahas employ a similiar gear reduction on the output shaft. 

First time I've seen one of these pictures up close.  Are those rubber engine mounts? 

Sorry if this has been posted before but in case not here's the link to the Yamaha Canadian pdf brochure.

http://old.nabble.com/file/p30366721/2011_sb_en.pdf

I have to admit being a little enamoured by these blue machines.  Except for a small generator I never owned a Yamaha product but that generator was the definition of "whisper quiet".   

I don't think we are going to know a whole lot about the new Yamahas until someone purchased one and starts taking it apart. I would like to see a service manual.

Maybe Steve (our official spokesperson) could call Yamaha and formally ask for a service manual.  Better yet, ask if Steve could get a demo for a year and provide a full review of the snowblower in return.

MN_Runner wrote:
Steve maybe on Toro's payroll already so that may not work out. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Good luck getting a service manual from Yamaha. 

I bought a nice used 2005 8 h.p. outboard motor the other day to put on my small boat at camp for my neighbour's kids to use.  I've been doing some work on it the last few days and wanted to pull the bottom end to check the impeller.  So I searched for a manual.  Yamaha will allow you to view their Owner's manual online but not the service manual.  If you want to see that, be prepared to shell out $87.00 to get a pdf. of the Service Manual.  

If you want a snowblower manual, $82.95 CAD will get you one.    Personally, I think that's pretty cheesy for Yamaha to charge for an operator's manual and the price they charge for a pdf. service manual is about four times too much.  Yahama have great machines but lousy public relations....

MN_Runner wrote:

Heh, no chance of that happening I did read that trouts2 said the manuals are expensive. So yes, I can get one but I'd have to pay for it. Companies like Yamaha generally will not let you demo a product like that unless you are a well established company that provides reviews of snowblower products. So they might IF they sold in the US and you have to be the snowblower equivilant of Edmunds.com.

@aa335

Work for Toro, are they hiring?

Actually Toro makes a great product and since they don't get mentioned enough I just want people in the forum to know that Toro is every bit as good a machine as Honda, Ariens and Simplicity. Better in some ways even.

Steve_Cebu wrote: This is true, other than the single stage blowers we don't hear as much about the Toro blowers.  Maybe their owners never have issues and don't need to come here.

Underdog wrote:

That might be true. Toro seems to be the kind of snowblower people buy, use and not think about. Kind of like a Honda car. I have 2 Hondas now and have had many in the past. I honestly don't think much about how well they do their job, it's seemless. You start it up on 1 pull blow the snow with no drama, the quick chute with joystick is brilliant. Then I put it away. Maintainance is minimal and it just plain works. You also don't hear about Toro owners modding their equipment like you do with other brands like Ariens. Ariens seems to be the Hot rodders snowblower of choice.

aa335>>Are those rubber engine mounts?

They are motor mounts.  The engine sits off the base of the tractor about 1/2 inch.  It was a big surprise when I first looked under there to check for a gas tank vibration.  The motor mount support base plate was broken so I replaced it.  That was on a YS828WA (wheeled) which I sold this summer and probaby a mistake to sell it.  828's are hard to come by.

Underdog:>>employed a gear reduction and drove the blower off the cam shafts.

   After owning 4 YS624's and an 828 I never noticed the PTO and stubby crank end.   Thanks for pointing that out. 

MN_Runner wrote:
Not a bit.. I purchased a Yamaha 9/28 in Feb 2011 after using my nieghbor's Honda 9/28. After testing both I decided to go with th eYamaha...The Yamaha throws farther, weighs more and handles better than the honda 9/28. Both are great machines but i think the Yamaha is superior.