Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

For every new engine I ever purchase, whether in a new car or a lawnmower I change the oil after just a few hours of use.  I learned to do this because a new  engine wears in and creates small metal particles that cause excess wear if they are not removed from the engine, and even in new cars with oil filters the filter is limited in how small the particles it can trap.  In the case of my New Honda GX 270 engine that powers my Honda Snowblower, I ran the machine for about 2 hours, then drained and refilled the engine with 100% synthetic oil.  When the oil was visible in the drain pan it was grey in color from the large quantity of metal wear particles suspended in the oil.   I will probably wait another 4 to 6 hours of operation before doing another oil change.   Considering that the expensive new engine only requires a little more than 1 quart of oil, and it has no oil filter, it seems a prudent investment to add these very early oil changes to the maintenance regimen of a new engine.   Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours.  Based on the evidence of the metal in the oil, I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change.  

I'm curious how others feel about this.

New_Yorker wrote:
Synthetic oil of the same viscosity (5w-30w) as dino oil has the same thickness at 20 degrees.  Yes if you cook dino oil it will turn to sludge, but a small snow blower engine never gets the oil that hot, not even close.  We are talking about a snow blower engine with maybe 25 hours a year put on it not a car that hasn't had an oil change in 15,000 miles.  These are snow blowers not jet engines turning 50,000 rpms.  I still stand by my comments Small lawn mower or snow blower engines are not designed to be run on synthetic out of the box. They use standard carbon rings and in most steel liners.  I have no problem with someone using synthetic after an engine is broken in, but, I would strongly suggest using dino oil for the first 5 to 10 hours of running.  Again this is not a jet engine or a turbo charger running at 30 to 60,000 rpms.

carlb wrote:
GM and their Corvette would disagree with you, the oil companies who make synthetic oil would disagree with you, and I will disagree with you.  Have a nice day !

I am not talking about a corvette with with High tech piston rings I am talking about a single cylinder engine turning only 3600 rpms with a plain steel ring set that needs to wear in. 

you can quote what gm and mobile one say and take whatever you want out of context but, they are talking about high performance automotive applications and we are talking about friggen tiny little single cylinder motors.

How many engines have you actually built or re-built in your lifetime.  I have built over 90 high performance V8 racing engines and countless small single cylinder engines. There is a would of difference in materials that are use and what these small engines are expected to do compared to a high performance automotive engine.

I will not comment any further in this thread or any other thread that you post because I suspect you have no real world knowledge or experience, you just like to quote other sources or you beloved owners manual.

And stop quoting what mobile1 or GM say about automotive applications.  These are not automotive engines just like they are not Jet or Rocket engines.  Automotive engines and Small air cooled engines are apples and oranges.

carlb:

He/she is a troll.  Ignore him/her.

Maybe I'm a little out of date but, I haven't seen a GM snow blower yet?   I'm assuming that they must be limited to the New York market.

I usually have extra oil leftover from my Amsoil changes so I use them in my OPE. Probably overkill but I only do annual oil changes in my cars and don't need a bunch of half filled containers sitting around.

New_Yorker wrote:
Exceeding the manufacturers service points is not always a good thing.  From personal experience (sadly) I can tell you that when the manufacturer says to fill your lawnmower with oil up to the specified line on the dipstick, and you greatly exceed that amount...nothing good comes from it, unless you like smoke.   LOL.  Also my wife had new front tires put on her car, drove home, and told me that her car was hard to handle.  Yep you guessed it...80 pounds of air in the tires...exceeding over twice what the manufacturer specified. 

Kinda like turning the volume up to 11

Ther are quite a few Tim Taylor homebrews out there that have some interisting points of view over the the use of synthetic vs. conventional oils.

My personal approach is to use what the manufacturer recommends while the engine is under warrantee and afterwards I switch to a synthethic oil. The reason is self evident.

 There are quite a few factors why conventional as well as synthenthic oils break down and regardless of what our resident genius's say about changing your oil less frequently with synthetics you should always be changing your the oil at or before the manufacturers recommended maintinance intervals.  Changing your oil is and always will be a key player in maintaining a long healthy engine life.

1. Carbon, which is a byproduct of combustion and why the oil turns black.

2. Impurities from wear and tear on internal engine components.

3. Moisture from condensation which is most common in engines that sit for long periods where the temperature fluctuates.

4. Fuel (conventional oil will break down much faster than it will with a synthetic since they are both petrolium products)

5. Heat (conventional oils break down extremely fast as compared to synthetics.)

6. Contamination (dirt)

A simple way to tell if the oil in your internal combustion engine has lost it's lubricating value is to put some oil between your thumb and index finger and rub your fingers together. If you can feel your fingers the lubricating value of the oil has been diminished and it should be changed. If it is black and feels gritty or smells burnt, change it. Additionally, if it smells like gasoline I would recommend changing it.

Starwarrior

I'm a gona buy me one of them there V12Ferrari snowblowers and break it in with mobile1, yep thats a what i'm a gona do.

"you should always be changing your the oil at or before the manufacturers recommended maintinance intervals. "

So, why use an oil two to five times the price when much less expensive oil will do the same job at a fraction of the cost?   The main benefits of synthetic oil is extended service duration and extreme heat resistance.  Neither of which are common demands of OPE engines.   Even cheap dino oil will provide sufficient engine protection for 25 to 50 hours in an OPE engine.  Synthetic oil has it's applications.  Being used in engines with short cycle oil change intervals isn't one of them.  It's a waste of good oil. 

Don't forget that conventional oil has been lubricating gasoline and diesel powered engines  the world over for 120 years or so.  The advent of synthetic oil hasn't rendered it useless.  Not by a long shot.   When the price of synthetic oil is equal to that of conventional oil, I'll advocate it's use.  Until then, I'll maintain that it's a waste of money in all but the most stringent applications.