Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

For every new engine I ever purchase, whether in a new car or a lawnmower I change the oil after just a few hours of use.  I learned to do this because a new  engine wears in and creates small metal particles that cause excess wear if they are not removed from the engine, and even in new cars with oil filters the filter is limited in how small the particles it can trap.  In the case of my New Honda GX 270 engine that powers my Honda Snowblower, I ran the machine for about 2 hours, then drained and refilled the engine with 100% synthetic oil.  When the oil was visible in the drain pan it was grey in color from the large quantity of metal wear particles suspended in the oil.   I will probably wait another 4 to 6 hours of operation before doing another oil change.   Considering that the expensive new engine only requires a little more than 1 quart of oil, and it has no oil filter, it seems a prudent investment to add these very early oil changes to the maintenance regimen of a new engine.   Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours.  Based on the evidence of the metal in the oil, I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change.  

I'm curious how others feel about this.

Chxbeachva wrote:

My responses to S#*+& Talk is to explain myself clearly, and "In KInd" if you bothered to read the BS you'd already know that.  Some simpleton attempting to say my advice is wrong or at odds with the manufacturers instructions when it obviously is not should expect such a reply.  Even the Bible says one reaps what they sow.  Read post #1 and tell me where I sow'd the replys I got ! The forums aren't ruined by me, just the idea that any lame-o advice is the same as the facts.  My advice is good advice, so try asking yourself why that causes others to criticize it.  I was not the one telling people to ignore the owners manual and grease something that has no need of grease, I just pointed out the truth.  That was when the whole thing went downhill.  That was who started talking S#*%@ Not Me.  And they keep coming back to it, not me, I tried to move on.  Proof - Read Post #1 again !

New_Yorker wrote:

That's where you took what I wrote all wrong. This isn't your first post. Your advice is great advise, and I have read just about every post. You were smug on some of them and now there are people here who just want revenge. But, you feed into it. I just got my blower recently and I need to change my oil so I want to read what you, mike, mn, and all the other more experienced people have to say. I had in my head just to have the dealer pick the machine up every season. It would be super expensive but whatever, you pay for convinience. I have taken the covers off the belts and am pretty confident I can do the work myself. So thank you all for your knowledgeable posts and who cares when you change your oil or weither someone comments on a boat in the background. This is for fun and if we didn't love toys so much we would have bought the cheapest shovel in the store regardless what size driveway we have. Thanks again. Happy New Year.

Chxbeachva

Changing oil is not that hard - you can get nice how to DIY videos from YouTube.  Don't worry too much about conventional or synthetic oil.  Just make sure you have enough oil in the engine and check the oil level before useage.  Keep up the good work.

You just don't get it do you.  You changed your oil after two hours that's great. The point people are making that your not getting is this. The manual as you say, suggests changing the oil in under 20 hours. So what happens when someone decides to wait until they have 15 hours of operating time on their blower before changing the oil?  They are 5 hours under the 20 hours.  If you believe as your constantly preaching you do.  That everything in the Honda manual can be taken as the gospel truth. Then why have you just contradicted yourself by saying " I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change". (by the way I agree 20 hour is far to long but that is what the manufacturer and the manual says).
In your first post you stated. " Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours".  Then in reply # 26 You stated this "The Owners Manual IS always right !  It requires the oil be changed once before 20 hours have been exceeded".  So which is it?  The manual is always right, which right. Before or after. 

I just feel sorry for all of those Honda owners out there who aren't "enlightened enough" to know that they really should change their oil before or after the first twenty hour of operation. What does Honda care selling a replacement engine only helps their top line.

Gee, does that mean that maybe saying that the augers shafts don't ever have to be lubed may also be incorrect and an untrue statement under certain conditions? (which by the way it is). I held a broken auger shaft in my hand after it took a torch and a 12 ton press to get it out of the auger.  In a court of law that would be the only evidence needed.  To prove that the ever statement is wrong and untrue.

You're not here pointing out the truth.  Your here trying to point out your truth. Your relying on what a book is telling you and some others here are relying on their personal experiences.
But the statement that really put things in focus for me.  And the fact that you would make it, was this one.
" If I leased cars, then OK maybe it'd make sense to do whatever is cheap, and minimum and let the next victim deal with the problems." That's great, a real testament to your character. 
You should have left that one out.

Nothing personal.  But you sometimes seem to be shooting yourself in the foot.  Your doing the same thing that you say other are doing just from a different perspective.
"My advice is good advice, so try asking yourself why that causes others to criticize it."  I would say the answer to that question is.  The times you've been criticized were when you were giving 'advice" solely on what your manual told you. Even tho a few others here had actual first hand experiences.  Disproving your manuals advice. Now, your here tonight making statements.
questioning your manuals advice. (As per your fist post. And my first few statements).  After you found first hand evidence in your drip pan.  That the manual is not always correct.
What ever.  It's a message board.  No big deal.

Wow, once again a thread in this forum is going to be deleted.

Too bad, there was an interesting debate going on, with some usefull information.

It is unfortunate that some ppl can not control their angry, ego and/or need to antagonize other ppl.

Yes, synthetic oil has been proven to have better lubricating properties than conventional oil. It last longer, remains more fluid, etc. It is especially effective in automobile engines.

Is it necessary in a snowblower, well there are different opinions on this site. I personally will trust the opinion of my friend who has taken apart thousands of various motors over the years. My 14 year old MTD has only had dino oil in it, spark plug only changed once, runs great. My Yamaha Generator has only seen dino oil, and it will last me many years. Do I believe that engines need to break in, and seat the rings, Yes. Do I beleive that synthetic oil can prevent or delay this process, Yes I do. But this is only my opinion, as shared on a forum, to be digested with other information available.

Those of you who think you need to get hostile, antogonize, whine or be defensive over a forum discussion should really consider taking a break from this site, and let the rest of us continue our debates so the threads will remain for others to read, contemplate, and debate in the future.

It would appear that a certain participant's agenda isn't to share nor seek knowledge.  This forum is a means for the participant to placate his/her ego by attempting to assert their self perceived superiority.   If the rest of use were less than ten years old, he would possibly succeed.  However, considering that a great deal of participants here are well seasoned owner/operators of numerous OPE, his/her efforts to impress us, are obviously in vain.   We'd be wise to avoid responding to his baits.  Whenever we do, he reels in another fish.  

Regarding the oil, synthetic oil that will not see the extended operational periods that it's designed for, is a waste regardless of how one tries to justify the expense.  From my experience, there is no advantage to use synthetic oil in short OCI applications.  NONE.  The argument that it contributes to easier starts is bunk.  I live in a cold climate.  Very cold.   I had used synthetic oil for three years because "it would make starting easier".   This year I changed to 5W30 conventional.   It was 12 below F. (-31c with the wind)  a few days ago.  My machine stays in an unheated garage.  I have not seen even the slightest difference in cold weather starting between 5W30 synthetic vs. same viscosity conventional. 

Using synthetic oil in short OCI applications is an exercise in appeasing the mind.  There is no real advantage.  In reality, the additional cost, albeit insignificant makes it a losing proposition.

People can use whatever oil they want in their OPE.  However, when they claim that synthetics provide  advantages in short OCI applications, they are misleading inexperienced people.   

jrtrebor wrote:

You're not here pointing out the truth.  Your here trying to point out your truth. Your relying on what a book is telling you and some others here are relying on their personal experiences.
But the statement that really put things in focus for me.  And the fact that you would make it, was this one.
" If I leased cars, then OK maybe it'd make sense to do whatever is cheap, and minimum and let the next victim deal with the problems." That's great, a real testament to your character. 
You should have left that one out.

Nothing personal.  But you sometimes seem to be shooting yourself in the foot.  Your doing the same thing that you say other are doing just from a different perspective.
"My advice is good advice, so try asking yourself why that causes others to criticize it."  I would say the answer to that question is.  The times you've been criticized were when you were giving 'advice" solely on what your manual told you. Even tho a few others here had actual first hand experiences.  Disproving your manuals advice. Now, your here tonight making statements.
questioning your manuals advice. (As per your fist post. And my first few statements).  After you found first hand evidence in your drip pan.  That the manual is not always correct.
What ever.  It's a message board.  No big deal.

That statement is not me, but me allowing (Hence the word "MAYBE") that it is logical for anyone leasing a vehicle and then turning it in.  If anyone who buys a preveously rented -leased vehicle doesn't accept that fact he is probably going to end up with a car that has problems.  The difference between doing the best maintenance or the minimum in everything in such an attitude. Many people I know who lease high end cars like BMW's and M-B do exactly that.  One fellow bragged that he never looked under the hood of his 80,000 BMW or his AMG mercedes, he only did whatever he had to to maintain the lease, nothing more.  One 7 series he leased actually blew its engine and it was less than a year old.  So such 'logic' appplies to why many people do nothing except what they must.     I was the one getting criticized for ASKING WHat oil change regimen others adhere to with new machines.  I simply explained that I changed the oil over to fresh and 100%synthetic oil after two hours, and why.  If the statemnet was, as you say my character shining forth I would never share my good advice with anyone, least of all those too dense to understand it, and those too insipid to not be threatened by it.

As to the nonsense that this is my truth, who in their right mind thinks that not changing the oil more often in any new engine is NOT beneficial for that engine?  I advocated nothing more radical than that and got a barrage of idiots attacking me for it. Just curious, why do you defend those who do that ?

New_Yorker wrote:
Synthetic oil of the same viscosity (5w-30w) as dino oil has the same thickness at 20 degrees.  Yes if you cook dino oil it will turn to sludge, but a small snow blower engine never gets the oil that hot, not even close.  We are talking about a snow blower engine with maybe 25 hours a year put on it not a car that hasn't had an oil change in 15,000 miles.  These are snow blowers not jet engines turning 50,000 rpms.  I still stand by my comments Small lawn mower or snow blower engines are not designed to be run on synthetic out of the box. They use standard carbon rings and in most steel liners.  I have no problem with someone using synthetic after an engine is broken in, but, I would strongly suggest using dino oil for the first 5 to 10 hours of running.  Again this is not a jet engine or a turbo charger running at 30 to 60,000 rpms.

carlb wrote:
GM and their Corvette would disagree with you, the oil companies who make synthetic oil would disagree with you, and I will disagree with you.  Have a nice day !

I am not talking about a corvette with with High tech piston rings I am talking about a single cylinder engine turning only 3600 rpms with a plain steel ring set that needs to wear in. 

you can quote what gm and mobile one say and take whatever you want out of context but, they are talking about high performance automotive applications and we are talking about friggen tiny little single cylinder motors.

How many engines have you actually built or re-built in your lifetime.  I have built over 90 high performance V8 racing engines and countless small single cylinder engines. There is a would of difference in materials that are use and what these small engines are expected to do compared to a high performance automotive engine.

I will not comment any further in this thread or any other thread that you post because I suspect you have no real world knowledge or experience, you just like to quote other sources or you beloved owners manual.

And stop quoting what mobile1 or GM say about automotive applications.  These are not automotive engines just like they are not Jet or Rocket engines.  Automotive engines and Small air cooled engines are apples and oranges.