Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

For every new engine I ever purchase, whether in a new car or a lawnmower I change the oil after just a few hours of use.  I learned to do this because a new  engine wears in and creates small metal particles that cause excess wear if they are not removed from the engine, and even in new cars with oil filters the filter is limited in how small the particles it can trap.  In the case of my New Honda GX 270 engine that powers my Honda Snowblower, I ran the machine for about 2 hours, then drained and refilled the engine with 100% synthetic oil.  When the oil was visible in the drain pan it was grey in color from the large quantity of metal wear particles suspended in the oil.   I will probably wait another 4 to 6 hours of operation before doing another oil change.   Considering that the expensive new engine only requires a little more than 1 quart of oil, and it has no oil filter, it seems a prudent investment to add these very early oil changes to the maintenance regimen of a new engine.   Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours.  Based on the evidence of the metal in the oil, I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change.  

I'm curious how others feel about this.

carlb wrote:

Well if a Ferrari was in your sights it surely must be a dream since you respectfully would not be concerning yourself with brainfart blogs to discuss snowblower maintinance.

You would be calling on your lawncare shop and simply writing the check. It sounds more to me like there is a Kia Coors Can in your bluestone driveway rather than a Ferrari.

Hee Hee Hee

Starwarrior

 

Based on the heated discussion ensued, I decided to change my oil out at 2.5 hours (2 hrs recommended by the manual) on my new Toro 421QE.  I did notice some silvery metal particles in the oil, not a whole lot, but there is some.

When new, I filled the engine with Mobil 1 synthetic.  After 2.5 hours run time, I've changed it to 5W-30 dino oil.  I would continue with dino oil from here on.  Not that the cost of synthetic was a major issue, but a small consideration.  My decision was based on conventional wisdom of folks on this forum.

aa335 wrote:

I am positive your Toro engine will run for many many years!! My MTD is 14 years old, and up here, esp the last 2 years in Lumsden, it works damn hard.

I estimate I put about 40 hours on it, before Christmas, so I changed the Oil over the holidays. When the New Yamaha comes in, I will be giving it to my Dad and I am sure he will get many more years out of it!

On almost all the OPE forums that I subscribe to, the general concensus is that one should use convemtional oil for the first 50 hours before switching to a full synthetic. The reason is the same as has been posted on this thread earlier in that the rings need a chance to seat properly. I'm no expert by any means but this advice sounds plausible to me. Conventional oil has been used for quite a long time and broken in many engines with no adverse results. I'm not inferring that synthetic oil is not capable of this but I'm not prepared to be the guinea pig with my barely used (about 10 hours) GX270 engine. I'll run conventional oil for a few years before or if I decide to switch to synthetic which I did on my old HS624WA at about the 7 year mark (estimated 175 - 200 hours of use). I just changed my oil yesterday (the second time doing so) and used Mobil 5W-30 conventional oil. Oil, whether it be conventional or synthetic, is much less expensive than a replacement engine.

[aa335] - " Based on the heated discussion ensued, I decided to change my oil out at 2.5 hours (2 hrs recommended by the manual) on my new Toro 421QE.  I did notice some silvery metal particles in the oil, not a whole lot, but there is some.
When new, I filled the engine with Mobil 1 synthetic."

I changed my new 421QE to Mobil 1 from a 2 hour break-in with the supplied Toro non-synthetic oil.  With only about 1 hour on the Mobil 1 oil - I'm considering

changing back to conventional oil also.    It's great to hear the feedback and knowledge from the more experienced members on this forum.

So after 50 hrs on conventional oil then switch to synthetic oil.  My question is why not just stay on course with the conventional oil period.  On my cars, I used convential oil for the first 5000 miles then I switched to Mobil 1 and will continue to use synthetic oil until car is gone (i.e., sold or RIP).  Also have done this (replace it with synthetic oil after 5 hours of use) on my inferior Honda GC 160 and GC190 engines and had  no issues thus far.  The main reason I use synthetic is it does make engine run somewhat quieter (perception only as I don't have sound meter).  If you prefer to go back to conventional oil on the new engine, just wait until Apr/May when the snow season is about over as there is no point doing oil change twice in such a short time.

MN_Runner wrote:
New Engines wear as much in the first 5000 miles as they will over the next 50,000 miles.  This fact makes it a good idea to exceed the oil change requirements during that initial 5000 miles and change the oil more often no matter which oil you use or which car you drive.  I usually change the oil 3 times in that 5000 mile window, with the first change at 500 miles or less.  The extremely close tolerances in modern engines mean that metal wear particles even smaller than 10 microns will cause serious wear on those bearing surfaces, so the oil filters won't collect these tiny wear particles from the oil..  Another concern for many is that new car dealers in recent years will 'Transport' cars from dealer to dealer by hiring some minimum wage driver to drive them with a set of 'Transporter' license plates.  I have seen many of these on the Long Island Expressway over the years usually doing 80 mph and weaving through traffic like a downhill skier.  How'd you like that car 'broken-in' by the minimum wage transport driver at 80 mph ? I saw a new silver Lexus just last week careening down the LI Expressway with its 'transporter' plates.  I now insist that new cars have less than 20 miles on them when I buy, or I won't take delivery because of this.  I had one dealer attempt to tell me a car with 200 miles on it was  a New car.  Unbelievable ! At least that is not a concern with a snowblower.

I concur with New Yorker. He hit the nail on the head. Follow his advice and you won't go wrong. As far as using conventional oil for the first couple of hours before adding synthetic, I can't disagree more. Synthetic oil meets or exceeds all manufacture specifications. That idea is "old school." Synthetic oil has been around since the 60's. Mercedes and Audi come from the factory with synthetic oil in them. They don't suggest a "break in" period with conventional oil. Amsoil 10w-30 Four Stroke Synthetic oil is outstanding and specificlly formulated for small engines. I use it for all my small power equipment. Ask Harley riders. A lot of them have been using Amsoil for years in their bikes. I have been using it in my Ford F-150 since 04. I change my oil and filter once per year or 25,000 miles which ever comes first. Great products and a great U.S. Wisconsin based family company.

This is the spark plug from my B&S Kool Bore 305cc engine which has been run on nothing but Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic oil after breaking the engine in with conventional 5W30 oil:





This is what it looks like after running the same engine with Castrol 5W30 conventional oil:
Don't mind the broken plug.  That had nothing to do with the oil.  Look at the electrodes.


So, from my experience, it would appear that synthetics may not be the best lubricant for OPE engines.....

Steve_Cebu wrote:

Who cares how long anyone has been posting in this forum?  Just because someone has posted a couple hundred posts doesn't mean they can't be wrong about something.  So bringing up the number of of someones posts in a web-forum and implying that gives this person some kind of credibility is a joke.  I'd rather hear the "right" answer from someone who just joined rather than nonsense from someone who has 500 or 1000 + answers on a web forum. .

Also, this idea that ... "There is no evidence to support your claim that synthetic is better in snowblowers but plenty of anecdotal evidence from well respected members of this forum that synthetic is not a good thing to use in a snowblower. There are a lot of articles that detail out that synthetic oil is not better. But you choose to ignore anything that doesn't support your position. Why don't you stop trolling in this forum?"

Who cares about anecdotal evidence and the anecdotal evidence/opinion about synthetic not being good to use in a snowblower? Show us, this forum, a couple of official/current articles published by Briggs & Stratton, Subaru, or Honda that say synthetic oil isn't good for use in a Snowblower/small engine.  People care about what a product's manual says or an official statement from a company regarding their product.  People for the most part don't care about anecdotal evidence and opinions.

Being as though Briggs, Honda and others sell their own "brand" of synthetic oil for use in their products (yes, including snow blower engines), I don't think they'd agree with the anecdotal evidence from random people on a web forum that say synthetic oil in a small engine is a bad thing.

In fact, this is what Briggs says about synthetic oil:
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engines/shop/parts-and-accessories/part.aspx?id={DA63FF57-9C51-4B28-8FFB-88A1B7B56511}

"SAE 5W30 Using Synthetic oil offers better wear control of your engine, even under severe operating conditions. Since synthetics have better "inherent strength" they have the ability to keep functioning at the highest level for the longest possible time.

Synthetic Oil gives your engine better viscosity temperature response, better low temperature fluidity, better thermal stability better oxidation stability, lower volatility, better deposit control, and better wear control.

This in return reduces risk of equipment failure, promotes trouble free operation, reduces maintenance costs, extends service life, and long term engine durability.

Briggs & Stratton's best engine oil, warranty certified, for all small 4 cycle engines. The use of this high quality detergent oil assures compliance with Briggs & Stratton warranty requirements regarding the use of appropriate oil."

I guess its time for you to tell us that these long time posters in this forum with anecdotal evidence know better than B&S about what kind of oil is better/best to use in a B&S engine.