Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Overview:

  Some testing was done between Honda and Ariens machines for traction, distance, and ease of use.  The machines will be described.  The test setups will be shown in pictures with comments and the results.

The machines (4):

Honda 1132TA Track American, tracks are 5 inches wide.

Honda HS70W Wheeled, refitted with 4 inch wide, 11 inch diameter, Carslisle Snow Hog tires.

Ariens 1028, engine has excellent compression, 6 inch wide,15 inch diameter, Carslisle Snow Hog tires.  Use with pins locked.

Ariens 1028, engine new head gasket, valve job, excellent compression,4.5 inch wide, 15 inch diameter Carslisle Snow Hog tires.  Used with differential engaged.

 General testing was done a few times over two days by using one machine then another getting a general feel for each.  That testing was same day same conditions and about 20 minutes between runs using different machines. The testing for these two day tests were with the machines above. 

  More specific testing was done on a third day over a course with the one Ariens 1028 big tire with pin locked wheels and the Honda 1132.  In addition, an Ariens 1028 with locked differential and smaller tires was taken over some of the course after the first more specific course testing was done.   The HS70W was also run for a short distance.  Also, for a short run the Ariens 1028 small wheel was run side by side for multiple 10-20 foot runs for about 150 feet. 

Tests (4):

(1) Gross same day tests by running one then another around the same area for a while a number of times over two days.

(2) Running two machines side by side over the same course.  One machine would be run 10-30 feet then the other for length of the run.  The course run was mostly up a slight incline.

(3)  Running the Areins 1028 big wheel and 1132 in the same sidewalk pile test.  The HS70 also cleared some of this area.

(4) Some general testing with the HS70 and separate from that running the Ariens 1028 small wheel and Honda 1132 side by side for 10-20 foot distances about 150 feet total.

Test areas(3):

   (1)Test 1 area not show.  My back yard.  Snow was 6-14 inches one day old. Temps below freezing from when the snow fell to testing days so decent condition snow with some areas covered with double throw.

   (2)The cemetery course.  Two days after the storm.  The sun had hit the area for two days.  Much of the area was covered with double throw from other testing.  The snow was 3 days old, sticky, and compressed by itself, sun, or overthrown with double throw.  It was much tougher going than a few days before when freshly fallen or the next day. 

   (3) The sidewalk area.  Mostly EOD buildup but there are two sections where a plow clears a drive across the street and packs against the sidewalk fence.  So this area is EOD piled up higher with EOD and driveway snow from across the street.  Its very tough going.  There are two places where this happens on my street and I go through them each storm testing machine ability in wicked tough compact snow.  The very dense pile has rocks, branches, dirt, bottles, cans, clumps of turf from the neighbors lawn, and sometimes chunks of the neighbors driveway in 6-8 inch blocks of 2 inch thick tar patches. 

NOTE: I clear about 1000 feet on this sidewalk each storm testing machines.  For days after each storm I clear for hours a day running tests on various machines so have experience with the sidewalk EOD and clearing on turf.

Cemetery area: 

   The pictures show bottom start area to the top went to area and each following picture tracks the course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sidewalk area:

  May not look big as it is and was much higher on prior days.  Consists of street EOD, packed by additions from plow doing a driveway across from the fence.  In the sun for a few days so wet on the outside but the melt going in further is dryer and semi frozen i.e. not snow not ice, hard pack.  The higher sections are not shown as they were drilled through by the blowers.   The middle sections were over the Ariens bucket which was the tallest.  The day before another section like this was done and the snow was over the Ariens bucket by 18 inches.   The Honda 1132 and HS70W were run through the same pile.

Field course:

Start on lower left up double paths.

Turn right and across.

Turn left up a long stretch.

Turn left up hill.

Backup and turn right up hill to finish.

HS70 taken over some of the course by itself.

Sidewalk test area:

Sidewalk pile equal to EOD plus driveway, street snow and EOD from driveway across the rode.  Note the dark clumps of lawn turf. 1132 ans HS70 shown.  Ariens is out of view.  Several runs into the long pile was done for a few feet with the 1132 and Ariens 1028, later the HS70.  The top right shows another EOD buildup which was higher than this one and gone through with these three machines the day before.

Highest sections cuPt away.

 EOD is greatly reduced.  Third day after the snow and sun for two days so very wet and cold internaly to make very crusted hard pack, much tougher than regular EOD.

HS70 doing a great job. Note the smaller cut.

An area this size back down the hill a short distance has the same type of EOD with addition by a plow from a driveway across the street to make a 20 or so foot area of nasty buidup which was tested in the day before.

Short field test 2:

Lower left start.  Ariens thinner wheel vs Ariens track 1132.

Turn left up hill.  Note 3 day old snow in sun two days and double thrown too.  Very tough going.

Top middle 1028 with thinner 4.5 inch tires, full differential not locked.

Right 1028 used, full commercial grade.  Note snow in the Honda bucket.  After each run it was always filled with packed snow.  Unsure if it has an effect on throughput but certainly none on distance.

trouts2 wrote:
trouts,
This is a fantastic overview and test.  I'd certainly trust your opinion with any and all of the following for these four machines if possible.

1) Testing conclusions. (pros and cons)
2) Ease of use
3) Reliability (beyond this test)
4) Ease of repairs and cost of repairs (beyond this test)
5) Original cost and resale value.

Good post Trouts. 

I forgive you for selling us out by divulging that we're homeless, library internet using, non snow blower owning imposters.

By the looks of your audience, I'm guessing you didn't get a "standing O"  for your performance. 

The pile of snow plow residue would certainly be rough going.  I'm assuming it was wet packed.   Doesn't look like it was frozen.  Try moving that stuff at -20 when it's like concrete.  That is a real test of all components.  Have some shear pins handy for that stuff at sub zero temperatures.

borat wrote:
But everybody was dying to get in there.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Catt wrote:
Despite the fact that everyone was dying to see the show, and the performance was flawless,  the lifeless crowd  was less than enthusiastic. 

After the best performance of his entire career, Trouts with head hung low,  exited the field in dead silence, gravely concerned about where he could have possibly gone wrong. 

It was a tough crowd indeed!

borat wrote:
OK!  That was the best.  I'm still laughing!!!

Results:

 

Things to take into consideration:

 

1. Field conditions - very rough uneven ground very much unlike a smooth lawn.

2. Most of the area gone through had been thrown to already so compressed.

3. Area had 1 cold day of sun and one warm day of sun so the snow wet and further compressed.  Most of the EOD test snow was stiff and frozen.  The EOD area gets sun much later than the field area.  

4. Operator familiarity. I’ve used a few different Yamaha 624 tracks before but only a few hours with Honda 1132.

5. All machines in very good condition.

6. The summary for the conditions is they were not average.  They were tougher than average but that’s what big machines with tracks and big wide wheels are supposed to handle.  

7. The sidewalk EOD area is about the worse most people would come across.  Three day old EOD, in the sun, compressed further by a plow pushing driveway snow and that driveways EOD into the test area. 

 

Handling and attack note:

 

Muscling machines was only done a bit when they first wedged.  After a machine hung low and slipped wheels or tracks it was jiggled a bit and if it did not continue it was considered stymied, backed out a few feet and restarted into the hang area.  When one started up a little muscle was used to keep it down but if it continued up it considered stymied and backed out for cleanup.  This was tough to factor given the attack change the Honda has.  It was used at various settings throughout using the most favorable for the conditions.

 

Distance:

 

   Honda hands down.  Generally the Honda tossed 5-15 feet better than the 10 depending on conditions.  I’ve had a number of 11.5 Tecumseh OHV’s on recent  Ariens bodies and they might come close but don’t think they would top the Honda. 

 

 

Distance: Honda wins distance, but it’s against a 10.  For an 11 it would probably still loose but the difference might be small enough that for most people it would not make a difference.  For people who were looking for max distance the difference may still be small enough for them to not care – Given these conditions.

 

Conditions were a factor.  I think in better snow the Honda would increase it margin.

 

The all around estimate given conditions over a season would be that the average person look for a good tosser would be happy with both.  For the person who has to have that extra in all conditions, Honda.

 

 

Throughput:

 

They were very close. Too close to tell.  Keep in mind the Honda is 32 and the Ariens 28.

 

They both made about the same progress when snowplowing slightly.  Again tough conditions so weighting down both and masking what might be a bigger difference in more average conditions.  Honda had an edge in power but taking a bigger bite. The estimate is the power difference was not so great as the bucket width so Honda wins slightly.  It’s also estimated that in more average conditions the Honda Ariens difference would have been greater with the Honda making better progress.  Given the power difference and estimating for an 11 32 Ariens I think the Honda edge would widen.

 

 

Handling:

 

The Honda was snagging right and left a bit more than the Ariens and probably due to bucket width.  The Ariens also snagged in this way but correction a bit easier with the Ariens.  Neither was tough to turn in open areas (no snow on the sides).  With snow on both bucket edges both were tough to turn 90 degrees.  The Ariens with full differential was the easiest.  Overall the Honda was slightly tougher to manage in turns than the Ariens.  For a practiced operator doing an average area with a 90 degree turnout or walkway but mainly up and down driveway runs neither would have an advantage.  For a more complex driveway with many turns the tracks could be a factor.

 

If someone had a big area big enough for an 1132 with a few 90 area to clear then the handling would not be a big deal.  For and average area with lots of turns a person would probably have a smaller size Honda which would be much more manageable than an 1132.  Given the same smaller area and an 826 wheeled machine he handling would also be easier. 

 

For handling when off Honda 1132 stinks – zero points.  My Honda 624TA is a pain to move. When started both are ok. 

 

 

Traction:

 

  High, referring to riding up.  Low being forward progress hampered by load (not grass or ground snags).

 

   Bucket size is again a factor here.  The bigger bucket presenting more resistance.  Through the course the Honda was blocked in forward progress more than the Ariens.  Both were somewhat close but the Honda noticeably more hangs low.  When hung low the tracks would spin.  When the Ariens hung low it’s tires would spin (never a friction disk slip throughout the/all/any tests). 

 

   For riding up there was again no clear advantage to either machine with Honda somewhat less here but overall no clear or overwhelming advantage even with bucket down.  Keep in mind when meeting bad conditions in the field or EOD piles both were approximately the same with riding up.  The Ariens was a bit easier to get the bucket down than the Honda but trying to muscle machines was kept to a minimum. When a ride high started a little encouragement tug up was given at the handles but that’s all. The machines were then free run to dig or continue high.  Ariens had a slight advantage here.  Given the low offset capability on the Honda this was a surprise. This may be due in part to the bad conditions especially the EOD tests where conditions were very bad. The Honda was at a disadvantage due to bucket width.  The 28 inch a clear advantage as power in both was close.  A Honda 828 might have done better.  Between the two Ariens overall had the advantage.  As a note.  In the EOD and field tests the Honda HS70 with wide (for it’s size) 4 inch tires did very well handling digging in and riding up.  It’s light weight made response to slight muscle noticeably more effective in the field and especially the EOD tests.  It was thought the 24 inch bucket and good tires were a factor along with it being lighter so fairly easy to help when stuck low or high.

 

 

   The tracks did not seem to be an advantage over the big tires (without chains) pin locked.  It warrants repeating that the tracks did not seem to be an advantage in the field tests, the EOD tests or the prior two day tests.  They both hung with the Honda hanging a bit more often with no clear advantage seen due to the tracks.  The tires on the Ariens were filled more than the average fill for ease of handling.   In tests this was a slight disadvantage.  With less air they would have gripped better.  Given the Honda track is outfitted for traction it did not show well against a machine not outfitted for traction.  With less air and 2 link chains the Ariens would have done better but not by a lot.  Some would say X-tracks would do better but I don’t think by much if at all.  The tire debate is another issue.  Overall the Honda did not hold up so well to a machine outfitted with 6 x 15 inch tires. 

 

   The estimate is the reputation of tracks over tires is not so warranted in these conditions.  That goes for big tires only, diameter and width.  The same thing was found with the Yamaha 624T.  It has great grip and handling but no advantage over a machine with big tires.  Besides the tests described there is a several foot section of very steep round at the house I run machines over all the time, tracks and wheeled whenever I can.  The big wheel machines have no problem with that area.

 

   A further estimate is in average home use with steeper than average inclines a track is not a clear advantage over a big wheel machine and less if outfitted with 2 link chains.  Large areas of sheet ice is not considered in the estimates.  Small patches yes.

     Summary for traction.  Slight edge for Ariens in these conditions.  It might be a slightly different story over a season of average conditions but my estimate is it would not be a factor for most average areas needing traction.  Given these tests and using tracks for a few years no clear advantage for tracks. 

 

    Take on front end weight distribution.  For weight forward Honda vs Ariens in bad conditions the forward progress is not helped greatly by weight forward on the Honda.  The tracks in bad conditions slip with the high load resistance added to by the front end loading.   No advantage in bad conditions for Honda.  For the EOD area both were essentially equal at making progress before slipping low or riding so high progress had to be stopped.

 

 

Usability:

 

Overall tough to say because it needs qualification as the sections above.  Generally they were about equal in the tests with the Ariens doing very slightly better overall at clearing and making progress.  To point out the difference a 1024 or 11.5 24 would probably have done better.  A Pro grade 11.5 OHV 24 inch was used in the field many times in the past and was super.  It also went through the EOD test areas a few times two years ago.  It also got stymied at the EOD section i.e. get stuck low and high but it had smaller tires like the test 1028 with differential, 4.5 x 15 inch.  Outfitted with big tires the 11.4 24 would have been a better match with the match lessening if outfitted with wider buckets.

 

The Ariens was more generally more comfortable to use but the Honda fine. 

 

 

Summery for all tests.  Ariens wins in most categories but not by much. The tests have a shortcoming in the difference in size of buckets and it’s felt not a small difference.  An 1132 Areins would have had a much tougher time.  When doing the tests and shortly after I had one impression but after mulling things more and especially when writing this I realized more the interactions of the conditions and the differences in machines effect on results. 

 

  It might be a consideration for a person with a high average bad conditions to consider going smaller than bigger.  The impression might be to go 12 or 13 hp with a 32 bucket when an 1128. 1026 or 1024 might be better. The impressive machine in the tests was the HS70W.  A Honda HS928W outfitted with big wheels might be a killer.

 

   

   Obviously more testing is needed so this was a good first run for the experience gained.  The field was not the best place for testing.  With a bigger Ariens machine the tests would have been much better.  Snowman, here’s your chance to get some good QA cheap.  Ship me a 358 32 inch Track. 

trouts2 wrote:

This is a very valid point to make!! When looking at snowblowers, and considering the hard packed snow I have to get through, most recomendations have been to stay around 24-28 and not go bigger.

The theory is, as you seem to have proved, is a bigger bucket can be difficult to push through hard conditions. I would think that if someone get tons of snow, that is fresh fallen and easy to blow, then bigger may speed up the process.

But if you have lots of EOD, and or packed snow, blown snow, etc, then I would agree that going smaller is better! :-)

Excellent review Trouts.  Unbiased and thorough.  Couldn't ask for more.

I'm also a believer in the right size machine.  Bigger is not always better when it comes to snow throwers.  I've owned 10/32, 10/29 and now an 11/28.   The 32 was the worst machine I ever owned.  The 10 h.p. Tecumseh engine was under powered for that size of a machine.   The 10/29 Craftsman with same Snow King engine was much better.  However, the Simplicity with the 11 h.p. B&S engine easily outclasses both in every possible respect.  A 28" machine isn't exactly small, however, it is a perfect fit for me and my needs. 

Thanks for posting all that really great info trouts2. Interesting that the tracks were of virtually no help. My guess is that they would probably beat out wheels if doing a fairly steep incline.

Thanks for doing this comprehensive evaluation.  The attributes that shine: narrower bucket, healthy hp,  and larger wheels leaves me wondering if the old  heavy diffferential 24" Ariens from the 70's with a new powerplant and larger tires, taller shoot,  clarence impeller kit, and electric directional chute,  might be the ticket. I seem to recall your efforts to repower those vintage machines. Did you ever put the larger better traction rubber on them?

If you were guiding the design of a new snowblower what would it look like?