Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Overview:

  Some testing was done between Honda and Ariens machines for traction, distance, and ease of use.  The machines will be described.  The test setups will be shown in pictures with comments and the results.

The machines (4):

Honda 1132TA Track American, tracks are 5 inches wide.

Honda HS70W Wheeled, refitted with 4 inch wide, 11 inch diameter, Carslisle Snow Hog tires.

Ariens 1028, engine has excellent compression, 6 inch wide,15 inch diameter, Carslisle Snow Hog tires.  Use with pins locked.

Ariens 1028, engine new head gasket, valve job, excellent compression,4.5 inch wide, 15 inch diameter Carslisle Snow Hog tires.  Used with differential engaged.

 General testing was done a few times over two days by using one machine then another getting a general feel for each.  That testing was same day same conditions and about 20 minutes between runs using different machines. The testing for these two day tests were with the machines above. 

  More specific testing was done on a third day over a course with the one Ariens 1028 big tire with pin locked wheels and the Honda 1132.  In addition, an Ariens 1028 with locked differential and smaller tires was taken over some of the course after the first more specific course testing was done.   The HS70W was also run for a short distance.  Also, for a short run the Ariens 1028 small wheel was run side by side for multiple 10-20 foot runs for about 150 feet. 

Tests (4):

(1) Gross same day tests by running one then another around the same area for a while a number of times over two days.

(2) Running two machines side by side over the same course.  One machine would be run 10-30 feet then the other for length of the run.  The course run was mostly up a slight incline.

(3)  Running the Areins 1028 big wheel and 1132 in the same sidewalk pile test.  The HS70 also cleared some of this area.

(4) Some general testing with the HS70 and separate from that running the Ariens 1028 small wheel and Honda 1132 side by side for 10-20 foot distances about 150 feet total.

Test areas(3):

   (1)Test 1 area not show.  My back yard.  Snow was 6-14 inches one day old. Temps below freezing from when the snow fell to testing days so decent condition snow with some areas covered with double throw.

   (2)The cemetery course.  Two days after the storm.  The sun had hit the area for two days.  Much of the area was covered with double throw from other testing.  The snow was 3 days old, sticky, and compressed by itself, sun, or overthrown with double throw.  It was much tougher going than a few days before when freshly fallen or the next day. 

   (3) The sidewalk area.  Mostly EOD buildup but there are two sections where a plow clears a drive across the street and packs against the sidewalk fence.  So this area is EOD piled up higher with EOD and driveway snow from across the street.  Its very tough going.  There are two places where this happens on my street and I go through them each storm testing machine ability in wicked tough compact snow.  The very dense pile has rocks, branches, dirt, bottles, cans, clumps of turf from the neighbors lawn, and sometimes chunks of the neighbors driveway in 6-8 inch blocks of 2 inch thick tar patches. 

NOTE: I clear about 1000 feet on this sidewalk each storm testing machines.  For days after each storm I clear for hours a day running tests on various machines so have experience with the sidewalk EOD and clearing on turf.

Cemetery area: 

   The pictures show bottom start area to the top went to area and each following picture tracks the course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sidewalk area:

  May not look big as it is and was much higher on prior days.  Consists of street EOD, packed by additions from plow doing a driveway across from the fence.  In the sun for a few days so wet on the outside but the melt going in further is dryer and semi frozen i.e. not snow not ice, hard pack.  The higher sections are not shown as they were drilled through by the blowers.   The middle sections were over the Ariens bucket which was the tallest.  The day before another section like this was done and the snow was over the Ariens bucket by 18 inches.   The Honda 1132 and HS70W were run through the same pile.

Field course:

Start on lower left up double paths.

Turn right and across.

Turn left up a long stretch.

Turn left up hill.

Backup and turn right up hill to finish.

HS70 taken over some of the course by itself.

Sidewalk test area:

Sidewalk pile equal to EOD plus driveway, street snow and EOD from driveway across the rode.  Note the dark clumps of lawn turf. 1132 ans HS70 shown.  Ariens is out of view.  Several runs into the long pile was done for a few feet with the 1132 and Ariens 1028, later the HS70.  The top right shows another EOD buildup which was higher than this one and gone through with these three machines the day before.

Highest sections cuPt away.

 EOD is greatly reduced.  Third day after the snow and sun for two days so very wet and cold internaly to make very crusted hard pack, much tougher than regular EOD.

HS70 doing a great job. Note the smaller cut.

An area this size back down the hill a short distance has the same type of EOD with addition by a plow from a driveway across the street to make a 20 or so foot area of nasty buidup which was tested in the day before.

Short field test 2:

Lower left start.  Ariens thinner wheel vs Ariens track 1132.

Turn left up hill.  Note 3 day old snow in sun two days and double thrown too.  Very tough going.

Top middle 1028 with thinner 4.5 inch tires, full differential not locked.

Right 1028 used, full commercial grade.  Note snow in the Honda bucket.  After each run it was always filled with packed snow.  Unsure if it has an effect on throughput but certainly none on distance.

Underdog: Do you check your Abbys mail?

 

   The old style Toro spiked tires were put on an Ariens which was nice but never big 6 x 15 inch.  Lots of old 8 and 10 32 Ariens commercial white/orange old timers around with huge tires and differential.  Those would probably match smaller machine lugs.  For hubs which slip onto axles you might have to install a longer axle from a bigger machine. 

    You could get one of those old bases and repower that.  They would have super traction.  They did not toss all that far but would be perfect for any length of single car wide driveway.   Ariens machines like the 924050 which came stock with big 4.5 wide tires have good traction even with the not so good tread pattern.  With chains they are great.  With 6 inch and chains they would be about as good as you could get

Honda gains on Ariens.

Out today with a Honda HS828 track with hydro, factory side skids and no rear skids.  Tested side by side with an Ariens 1028 with 6 x 15 tires, used in above posts. 

The driveway is dirt and smooth.

One section of the driveway is always tough because it gets doublethrown to.   The snow was fresh fallen not so wet or dry so decent tossing snow covered with a few layers of double throw on top.   It was about 14-16 inches and higher in spots. 

4-5 runs at this area were made with both machines.  The Ariens lifted quickly and to make progress required lifting of the handles and struggling a bit to wade in.  It could not go more than a few inches before starting to ride up.  The deeper iinto the run required more lifting to keep the bucket down.  It was uncumfortable to struggle with it.  These were full bucket runs so not trying to take smaller cuts to make progress which is what would normally be done to avoid struggling and getting pooped.

The Honda with the bucket in normal position with good weight distribution and slow hydro had no problem.  It made progress without lifting.  The snow at times going over the top and the bucket cutting a clear hole for itself such that the snow would not crumble until it got well over the back of the bucket.  At times the tracks would slip but not much.  They would slip but the augers would clear and the machine slowly go forward on its own - no lift was required on the handlebars. 

As a check the weight forward bucket down position was tried (i.e. was in 2 going to 3).  The thought was with the extra effort required to move the machine with the resistance of the weight forward might cause it to not make progress.  No problem.  The machine scrapped the ground and dug in with no problem.  At one point the snow was going over the bucket by 3-4 inches but still made progress cutting its own hole.  The snow was so deep it came over the bucket, filled up the barrel area an ran up over the gas tank while still making progress.  Very impressive and no lifting on the handles. 

The advantage for Honda was hydro and slow speed but I don't think the difference between the two was entirely due to Honda speed flexability.  The Ariens was way to fast in first to do much other than lift.  It may have been asking too much of the Ariens to chew or friction disk may be out of adjustment.  I'll have to check the speed mph to see if it's over spec.  If too fast then it was out of it's design limit.  If on the money then the Honda did a better job.  It's tough to say if the Honda was going at a much slower speed than the Ariens.  Whether it was or not it was certainly within its design spec and more flexable than the Ariens.   Another shot was given to some high EOD going parallel into the pile with the highest EOD point on the bucket center.  The result was the same as above with Honda never lifting to make progress.   The Ariens always requiring some lifting, a lot at times and some sections impossible requiring it be backed out for another pass.  All in all it was an impressive day for the Honda when clearing the rest of the area.  Some spots were around two feel +- from drifting.  Very easy to move along clearing without having to struggle with managing the machine especially lifting on the handles. 

For distance both were about equal so tough to say.   At times the Ariens seemed the clear winner and at others Honda. 

Note: The top post mentions how slow the 1132 is in reverese.  The HS828 and HS624 have ok reverse speeds. 

Note: although compessed EOD the pile was fresh being that the snow was overnight and the clearing done in cold temps the next morning so not after hours after like after work several hours later. 

Excellent review.  Great points on the bucket size.  You validate something that I felt was the case...that the size of the tires matter on wheeled machines.  Ariens used to put 6.5 X 16 inch tires on their Pro 28 inch machines but today they use narrower 16" tires and they use 15 inch tires on their Deluxe 28 inch model. 

I was planning to buy an Ariens track conversion kit for my 28in Ariens.  Saw them on sell for around $450...but after your review I think that I may just find chains that fit my tires and save some money.

trouts2 Thanks for taking the time and posting your findings and observations.

trouts2 wrote:

So when the Honda was digging in, taking a full bucket, how did the motor perform???

I just had the Yamaha out, and crawling was fine, but if I step it to about 1/3 speed, I could make the motor slow down, could hear it working, this was about 12-16 inches of blown snow.

Paull7, used hubs with tires are fairly cheap.  If chains help but not quite enough you could pickup some wide hubs with tires and chains.   There’s also cross link spacing.  Two and four link are the most common.   I’ve never seen one link but it should be possible.  Chains give a rougher ride but track machines are fairly bumpy also.   The older machines with 4.5 x16 and flat treads with chains do an excellent job. 

 

Jrtrebor, the Ariens diff machines I use are so good at locking and unlocking when they should I’m always in lock.  The old style diff was quite nice and easy to change with gloves .  Not sure how good the new off the shelf diff is but I have not seen bunches of complaints about them, only a few.  Sold a lady an Ariens 1028 commercial with 4.5 x 15’s.  Her machine was an MTD 826 which is fairly light and easy to move around.  She never knew about pin locking so always run locked.  She tried out the Ariens and loved it.  She had a slight build but handled the machine easily.   The newer machines wheel machines with drive turning seem to be overkill compared to diff but comfort counts.

 

Rubinew, the motor performed very well.  When it started to sag there was enough room to slow down more with the hydro.  It’s tough to describe sag or degree of sag.  I usually distinguish 4 levels of running. 1 just clearing and the engine having no problems. 2. Into governor control where you can hear the difference but the engine is still up in revs.  3. Solid into governor control with the engine loosing revs and another difference in sound.  4. Engine very overloaded, governor struggling to keep the engine up, sounds very taxed and time to back off which some people do not.

  The Honda seems to take 3 better than Tecumseh but it’s tough to tell from sound.  I’m beginning to notice more the amount into the governor and the loss of distance.  I always try to run in 1 or 2 so when going into 3 or 4 I slow or take a smaller cut. 

 

I don’t know the MPH of the Yamaha or even the Honda.  I don’t think the Honda would clear 12-16 inch snow at 1/3 without sagging quite a bit.  If you ever find out the auger and impeller speeds please post them.  My guess is they are running 140 and 1400.  If you have nothing to do you could put a piece tape on an auger and count the revolutions of the augers over10 seconds and multiply like taking a wrist pulse.  The ratio for most machines is 10:1.

Trouts, Thanks for the response!

I find with the Yamaha, that taking a full cut, I experience all 4 of your descriptions. When hiting packed snow, the engine revs up, sounds like it is working, as snow gets thicker, the engine seems to top out, and you can tell it is working.

Then as the snow thickens past about 8 inches, you start to here the RPM drop a bit, once in a full cut, around 14 inches of packed snow, then the motor slowed, could hear it, just backed off on Hydro, and engine reved up, everything was good.

What I have to get used to is this snow blower doesn't stop, or slip much, so you can feed it to much snow!!! 

   It’s the day after the testing in the last update post.  Testing again side by side a few blowers in the cemetery.  All freshly fallen snow 1 day old, one day in the sun, good stuff to toss, 14-20 inches.  All clearing was full bucket widths with snow to both sides.

 

 

    All the test machine have good speed ranges except for the Ariens.  The Ariens is too fast for tough conditions.  The Ariens spec calls for first to be .9 MPH.  It was measured at 1 MPH.   .8 or .7 would be better for the 1028.  To compensate for the 1 MPH being over spec some clutch feathering was done but often, too often extra feathering was required to keep the machine from overloading and plowing too much.

 

Ariens 1028 and Honda 828:

   Both made progress without lifting and tossed very well with the distance for both mostly equal.  Use and control wise the Airens was a pain due to it’s high speed low gear.  Feathering was needed to bring it below 1MPH,  .9MPH and even lower were constantly required to keep it from lifting or plowing too much causing loss of RPM and distance.  It had to be ”managed”, jerky going and a pain..  The Honda was effortless with the flexibility of the hydro very low speed capability.  It could be set to average bucket or low for effortless going at speed. 

Almost no wheel or track slipping for either machine which was much different than the first tests in bad conditions.

Both were tossing 20-40 feet.with roughly 25 average.

In tougher going in full governor control both engines sagged and dropped RPM but the Honda did not seem overly pressed. The Tecumseh in similar governor depth seemed not to like it and it would create excessive wear.   In deep sag they both dropped RPM and distance significantly but the Honda did not seem horrified by that.  The Tecumseh did. It might be just the muffler sound difference but the Honda seems to take the punishment better.

 

     Overall Honda put in the best showing in a field of high average snow.  Less attention required, less handling, less operator fatigue.  Advantages for Honda, hydro, bucket adjustment, great motor. 

 

Ariens 1028 and Honda 1132:

Both had no problem with lifting like on the first test posted.  Both could make progress compared to the prior tests where the Honda wide bucket was a disadvantage.  Most of the comments above apply here with the note that at 32 it was at a disadvantage but offset by the 1 more hp.  The same required feathering for Ariens.  Distances ranged from 20 – 50 feet with roughly 25-35 being average with Honda getting most of the high average distance and impressive.  Almost no right left catching of the Honda wide bucket in these tests which was a problem in the first tests – much different conditions.  The 32 went along smoothly.

 

   Overall similar to the 828 tests above noting that 32 was a tougher but progress was as seamless as with the 28 in these conditions.  No handling problems with the Honda as in the first tests.  In fact I forgot that it had skids on the back until just now when I write this.

 

   The HS70 was taken out and did very well in the high snow.  It had some wheel slip and disk slip (probably needs adjustment) but other wise put in a good show tossing very well and making progress like the big guys. At a some spots it require a little lifting but not much.

 

Snapper 824 old timer with an original Briggs, 4.5 x 16 tires with chains.

Did very will with great bucket attack and having no problem with the high snow.  Poor distance as expected with the tiny chute of about 12-14 inches but tossed 15-20 and cleared at a good clip with no lifting.

 

Honda HS624TA track:

  The best for last.  This guy put in a spectacular showing.  It cleared at good speed the same snow the big guys went through with no effort and hardly sagging.  It tossed 15-25 feet and just kept trucking.  It ran well loaded deep into the governor control but never seemed overly taxed, RPM drop minimal, and keeping up good distance when overly loaded.  An impressive show and warrants further consideration as an equal to a Yamaha YS624.

 

   In general Honda tracks seem useful as general purpose machines along with being a special purpose machines for traction.  As I get used to them they get easier to use and their flexibility and general clearing ability more apparent.  

Trouts, I am enjoying these reviews.  Most interesting. I look forward to further updates.  When can we get an HS724 and YS828TA in the mix?  Lets home the snow continues. What did you do get for snow from this week's storm?

Trouts,

very thorough review, Thanks for doing this, very informative!!