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SSSJ


Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 5

Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Original Message   Dec 5, 2010 10:14 am
Just moved to North Dakota from the West Coast. First winter here with little kids, long driveway, hubby deployed, so bought a $150 second hand Yard Machine 2 stage snow thrower, model# 611. First time it ran just fine. Second time was fine till the auger suddenly stopped spinning (engine still runs and thrower still moves fine). Stopped the engine, disconnect spark plug. Found no blockage. shear bolds are still all there. Tried to turn spiral blades by hand and they don't move. Researched on line, found user manual and read up all related articles about auger problems. Open up the covers and found severed auger belt. Replaced with new belt OEM-754-0430A, which fits snugly on the pulley. Now start the engine, engage the drive, move back/forth fine just like before. However whenever engage the auger, not only neither stage would spin but the engine shuts off. Tried a few more times, same thing. What else could be wrong with the thrower? If you can offer insights please tried to be specific or give links. It took me almost a week to finally get a chance to go out and purchase the auger belt. Thank you so much for reading!!!
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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #6   Dec 6, 2010 2:05 pm
SSSJ: If you post again please give the full factory number off the back of the base below the handlebars.   That will ID your machine specifically.  There are a number of 611 variations but I think you have a 5hp 22 inch MTD which makes snowblowers labeled Yard Machines. 

Shryp: The sticker is about wheel pin locking.  The belt is cogged.

Borat: There is no auger belt guide on this machine.

SSSJ: The belt number you listed in the first post is correct.  It's a 5/8 35 inch cogged belt and does fit very loose on those machines.   The looseness is to allow slip when the engine is turning.  The auger belt in its pulley slips on the pulley until you press the auger clutch.  Pressing the auger clutch brings the tensioner pulley (the white one under the auger pulley) into the belt to tighten it so the auger drive pulley below will turn. 

A comment about looseness of the fit of the auger belt.  The belt is very loose on those and  your's looks about normal or slightly loose.  You can change that in two ways:

1. Under the auger clutch is a barrel and nut at the cable end.  You can loosen the nut and turn the barrel to take up slack in the cable.  Not sure what the factory adjustment is but there should probably be no slack in the cable or very little.  This adjustment will determine how far tensioner pulley goes into the auger belt when the auger clutch is pressed.

2. There is also an adjusting on the white tensioner pulley.  That pulley is mated to an arm and has about 1 inch of adjustment.  (Look at the center of the white pulley to see the adjustment). You could check it and if there is room left you could adjust it closer into the belt by loosening the nuts.  That may draw off enough slack to help out and keep the belt on.  If your tensioner was fully away then that is likely the problem with the belt comming off.

Between adjustments of 1 and 2 the belt should stay on when snowblowing.  It might take a couple of rounds to tune it in.   Keep in mind it should be fairly loose to allow slipping and from what I see in the pictures it's about right.  Since it slipped off then it could probably be tensioned a bit by 2 first then 1 later but you want to do 1 at least to get slack out.

The belt comming off could just be the tensioner pulley adjustments but could also be from the back auger bearing being worn.  You can check that easily by first

>>>>Pulling out the spark plug<<<<

Then stick your hand into the front and grab the auger drive shaft (has the impeller on it) as close to the impeller as you can and try to shake it up/down/and sideways.  Is it tight or loose?  If loose it will ride up a little causing the big pulley in the back of the housing to ride up (the pulley the top pulley is driving).  If enough slop it could cause the auger drive belt to come off occasionally.  It would ride ok for a while but cause a problem when enough pressure from a bump or snowblowing happens so act inconsistantly.    

Everything seems ok except the belt came off.   If it comes off again you can measure it. 

Just checked what I hope is your manual.  The clutch adjustment is just getting the slack out so there is no pressure lifting the lever up.  When you first press the handle it should be free and not tension then immediatly start to take up tension and more as you go down.  It does not have to be exact.  The other is #2 above and that is relative to what is going on i.e. if your belt is comming off or the belt slipping when blowing slow then more tension.

SSSJ: >>>By the way auger belt is amost touching the base of chute, is it normal?

  On that machine the close fit is normal.  It almost touches. 

There is a manual for your machine at the link below.  Give it that factory  number and 1 for a serial number.  The owners manual includes a parts exploded view section.  It's the model I thought so what I mentioned above is ok for that machine.

http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do

This message was modified Dec 6, 2010 by trouts2
SSSJ


Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 5

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #7   Dec 6, 2010 4:25 pm
Oh Sorry... model# is 31B-611D352. Will have to read your kind replies in detail after getting done with kids' after school activities. Thanks! Picture of the tag http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5238724599/
jrtrebor


Location: Michigan - 3 hours north of Chicago on the lake
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Points: 539

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #8   Dec 6, 2010 7:14 pm
SSSJ

I don't know if this will be of any help.
I just purchased a Yardman made by MTD 5hp 22" from someone last Friday.
They said it was eating auger / impeller drive belts.
(so they bought a new blower, my good fortune)
Your pictures look just like the blower I bought.
There were two things wrong that were causing the belt problems

First, was that the bolt that holds the belt pulley to the impeller shaft was loose.
Allowing the pulley to wooble which is what cause the first belt to fail.

The second issue was that the owner didn't see that the pulley was loose and tighten the
bolt before the put on the new belt (which failed)
But another problem was that the owner didn't put the belt underneath the pulley brake when they installed it.
So the teeth were getting ripped off the belt by the pulley brake and the pulley was wobbling.

I don't know how familiar you are with blowers.
The pulley brake is usually part of the idler/tension pulley arm.
It rubs on the pulley when you disengage the blower to stop the auger and impeller.
It's towards the bottom of the pulley on the right side.
You will need to remove the six bolts securing the belly pan to be able to easily get the belt in the groove underneath the brake.
It is possible to get it done without taking the pan off, but you will need three hands and a little luck.
It just quicker and easier with the pan off. 

Don't know if these things are causing the problems you've been having.
Just thought I would mention them to you.
This message was modified Dec 6, 2010 by jrtrebor
SSSJ


Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 5

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #9   Dec 17, 2010 12:56 am
Luckily auger drive shaft wasn't loose at all. Still not sure how to adjust white tensioner pulley (screw it onto the lower hole on the same arm?), so instead I tighten the auger cable. Actually I've done this before, but this time with the belt cover off, I could see it can be tightened even more. Although the slack on the cable is almost all gone, the auger belt is now more snug. Last night we finally had enough new snow so today I get to try out the snow thrower. It worked beautifully with the new snow, as well as the older, more packed piles. I was so happy I played with it for almost 2 hours, blowing my neighbor's snow as well. Oh... I haven't mentioned that one auger blade is bent at the very end of the spiral (I didn't do it). Should I try to bend it straight, or just leave it? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5249075808/ I've never seen a snow thrower in real life till 3 months ago and never touched one till Thanksgiving. Today I'm feeling confident using one, and fixing it too thanks to all of you who took the time to help me. Some are really amazing experts and you truly know your stuff!
hirschallan


If it aint broke don't fix it !!


Location: Northern Hills of NY
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Points: 327

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #10   Dec 17, 2010 1:18 am
SSSJ wrote:
Luckily auger drive shaft wasn't loose at all. Still not sure how to adjust white tensioner pulley (screw it onto the lower hole on the same arm?), so instead I tighten the auger cable. Actually I've done this before, but this time with the belt cover off, I could see it can be tightened even more. Although the slack on the cable is almost all gone, the auger belt is now more snug. Last night we finally had enough new snow so today I get to try out the snow thrower. It worked beautifully with the new snow, as well as the older, more packed piles. I was so happy I played with it for almost 2 hours, blowing my neighbor's snow as well. Oh... I haven't mentioned that one auger blade is bent at the very end of the spiral (I didn't do it). Should I try to bend it straight, or just leave it? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5249075808/ I've never seen a snow thrower in real life till 3 months ago and never touched one till Thanksgiving. Today I'm feeling confident using one, and fixing it too thanks to all of you who took the time to help me. Some are really amazing experts and you truly know your stuff!


Looked at your pictures and I would say straighten it out. Heat it up and bend it back compared to the other auger. Close will do but go for it. Also in one of your pics I noticed oil on the crank case in the area of the yellow oil cap. Make sure you have enough oil or else you know what might be your next chore.

Shryp


Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
Points: 532

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #11   Dec 17, 2010 4:20 am
Even without a torch you can probably straighten it out some with just a crescent wrench.  You probably don't want to hammer on it much because your gearbox is only aluminum.  That part of the auger is responsible for pushing the snow back into the impeller.
This message was modified Dec 17, 2010 by Shryp
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #12   Dec 17, 2010 8:12 am

SSSJ:  Luckily auger drive shaft wasn't loose at all.

 

    That’s good.  You never mentioned squealing noises so the back auger drive shaft support bearing in back of the impeller will probably stay ok for several years.   

 

SSSJ: Still not sure how to adjust white tensioner pulley (screw it onto the lower hole on the same arm?), so instead I tighten the auger cable.

 

You got it and understand the purpose of the lower hole.

 

 The 522’s 611 models were not all exactly the same.  Some had a 1 inch slot in the tensioner arm to adjust the pulley closer to the belt.  Others had the lower hole.  Any further adjustment past the little cable adjust you have left is probably years off. 

 

For future reference: Getting the tensioner pulley nut out will probably require separating the bucket from the tractor section.  That you can do and would require a couple of hours.  -  or - Those models had so much belt slack that you can drop a belt size from 35 inch to 34 and fully back off on the cable adjust.  Belt places usually let you return a belt so trying that is not a big deal. 

Best case it will work fine.  Worse case is the belt will not slip fully and the augers turn slowly when the auger clutch is not engaged.  That’s ok as they will be turning without power by the belt being slightly caught by the pulley.  If you drove into snow with no clutch press the augers would stop and the belt then slip.   With use the belt would eventually stretch and slip like normal.   

 

SSSJ: I played with it for almost 2 hours, blowing my neighbor's snow as well.

   Snowblower fever has set in and never enough snow in your own yard for a fix.  Your 522 is in great shape, is a nicely designed machine and a wicked nice motor.  Check out the link for maintenance info:

 http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/50431-0-1.html

 Nice job.  I discussed your fine analysis and agressove stick-to-it-ive-ness work in the posts with the forum admin.  You have been promoted two Snowman ranks from Snowman One to Snowman Three the hash marks for which you can attach to your winter jacket sleeve. Congradulations.

SSSJ


Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 5

Now one set of the shear bolt and nuts are gone...
Reply #13   Dec 25, 2010 3:22 am
Yard Machine Model#: 31B-611D352 So I'll need Shear Bolt 710-0890A 5/16-18 x 1.5, and Hex Lock Nuts 712-0429 5/16-18 Where's a good place to buy and how many more should I get as back ups? Thank you!!!
Shryp


Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
Points: 532

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #14   Dec 25, 2010 3:42 am
Don't have experience with your particular blower, so I did some quick online searching for the part number.
These are two places I have ordered from before.

(1) = $0.86: http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/41-8627.html
(4) = $6.59: http://www.amazon.com/Arnold-OEM-710-0890-Thrower-Replaces-710-0890/dp/B000BPNVDC   *Note: Picture shows 4, but I don't see a quantity listed anywhere*

You can never have too many :)

If you have only the 2 in the blower now, they will both break the next time you use it.  If you have 20 sitting in the garage, you will never need them.
I would say maybe keep 5-10 around just incase you have a bad spell.  I only broke one last year, but that was in an old Toro that used regular bolts.
For all I know it could have just vibrated itself loose as it disappeared all on its own without me hitting anything, at least at that time.

You are probably just going to have to look around and see where you can get the best deal for the cheapest price and don't forget to add in shipping.
If you are already ordering some stuff from somewhere, you can probably add them too for minimal cost.

If you are in a hurry or like supporting local businesses, you should be able to pick them up at any small engine repair place, hardware store, or some place like Home Depot.
Just make sure to get shear bolts and not regular bolts, however I have read that grade 2 bolts can sometimes be used as replacements.  Grade 5 and grade 8 are no nos.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Replaced auger belt on 2 stage snow blower, auger still not turning, even shuts engine off.
Reply #15   Dec 25, 2010 9:33 am
Go to a hardware store and bring in a piece of your broken shear pin.  Ask them for an equivalent size bolt of low grade steel that can be substituted for the shear pin.  Also  ask for a few  nylock nuts to go with the bolts.  That will cost you a fraction of what a dealer will charge for shear pins.  I've used them with no problems.  Just make sure they are low grade steel.
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