Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Just moved to North Dakota from the West Coast. First winter here with little kids, long driveway, hubby deployed, so bought a $150 second hand Yard Machine 2 stage snow thrower, model# 611. First time it ran just fine. Second time was fine till the auger suddenly stopped spinning (engine still runs and thrower still moves fine). Stopped the engine, disconnect spark plug. Found no blockage. shear bolds are still all there. Tried to turn spiral blades by hand and they don't move. Researched on line, found user manual and read up all related articles about auger problems. Open up the covers and found severed auger belt. Replaced with new belt OEM-754-0430A, which fits snugly on the pulley. Now start the engine, engage the drive, move back/forth fine just like before. However whenever engage the auger, not only neither stage would spin but the engine shuts off. Tried a few more times, same thing. What else could be wrong with the thrower? If you can offer insights please tried to be specific or give links. It took me almost a week to finally get a chance to go out and purchase the auger belt. Thank you so much for reading!!!

You can’t rotate the augers easily because of the gearing in the gearbox but you can turn the impeller and see if the auger move when the impeller turns.  The belts are not tensioned so the impeller (the fan behind the augers) should be able to move.  The augers will move only a small amount compared to the impeller about 10:1.

 

>>>With the spark plug out.<<<<<<<<<<

 

Stick your hand through the chute and turn the impeller.   Feel with the other hand if the augers are turning.   You may have a piece of wood or stone wedged between the back of the case and the augers. If no movement run your fingers between the auger blades and the housing back for any wedge things.

It’s also possible for a stone to wedge behind the impeller but very unusual.

There are other possibilities but wedged augers are the most likely.  Try that and post what happened.

If the augers aren't jammed and you cannot rotate them, it sounds like something let go in the gear case for the auger drive.  That's likely what destroyed the auger drive belt.   Sounds like you have mechanical aptitude but disassembling the components and cracking open the gear case can be  a difficult job if parts are rusted into place etc.   if you just bought it,  you might want to talk to the source who sold you the machine.  Good luck to you.

edited:

Good  points Trouts.  I mentioned the augers possibly being jammed but not the impeller.   I've had an impeller get jammed by a roll of flyers buried in the snow.  We had a lazy, bad-ass paper boy who was famous for leaving "mines" in the driveway while it was snowing.  Let's hope it's something as simple as that.  

Wow you guys are good! Never occured to me to look beyond the augers. Sure enough the impeller wasn't turning at all, and what's jamming it was simply a sheet of ice. I realized I've made a rookie mistake of putting away the snow thrower with lots of snow still in the auger housing. It somehow turned into ice and blocked the impeller's movement.(However this doesn't explain why the old auger belt broke when I was already half way through clearing the drive way). After removing the ice behind the impeller, the thrower is throwing snow again! I was careful just let it chew a little bit of snow at a time. Everything was working so beautifully for about 10 minutes, then suddenly the auger stop turning again. It wasn't even chewing much snow at all! Opened up the belt cover, found the new auger belt still intact but off the pulley. It's a little easier to put the belt back on this time, still having to use some force so I know it's probably not too loose . Turn the engine back on, and it's throwing snow again. However I was afraid to use it as I know the auger belt will come off again unless I find out whatever was wrong in the first place and fix it. Here're 2 photos of the thrower with the belt cover off. By the way auger belt is amost touching the base of chute, is it normal? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5237704057/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5237693835/ Hope it's not the gear box. I don't feel comfortable cracking it open. I'm just more willing to learn and get my hands dirty fixing things than the average housewives, but I know my limitations. Any insight will be greatly appreciated!!!

Machine looks to be in pretty good shape. 

Most Craftsman machines that I have worked on have had a guide that lines up with the back of the auger belt to keep it in position when it's not engaged.   Usually it's got a bit of a crook in it to allow it to loosened off and rotated to achieve proper clearance between the guide and the belt.   Take a look to see if you have a guide or look for a vacant mounting hole where the guide may fallen from.   The guide could also be something a simple as a 1/2" wide bendable metal tang.  Look to see if it has  one, or for a broken weld where it may have been.

Either way, there should be some form of guide to keep the belt in position.  The belt should be loose but, in the pics, it looks a bit excessive.  Find the guide, put the belt in front of it and you should be set.

Good luck and let us know how you make out. 

I see a belt diagram on the side of the impeller housing there.  Confirm with that to make sure the belt is installed properly.  Also check to see if it lists a number for the belt.  I see your belt on there now is notched.  I don't recall ever seeing a notched belt on a snowblower, but I have not seen too many apart.  I agree with the above about some kind of guide to hold the belt in place when there is not any tension on it.  It could be connected to the inside of the belt cover maybe.

I would say as long as it is working sometimes and you are not hearing any clanking noises coming from the augers or the gearbox everything is in good shape.  One test would be to remove the belt/spark plug and spin the impeller with one hand while holding the augers with the other.  Keep just enough resistance on it to feel for any sudden jolts as the impeller spins.

One major problem I noticed is the 2 shafts coming out of the engine.  Those are a pain to find and usually expensive when you do.  Make sure you always check the oil so you don't kill that engine.

I would say your major problem is the belt looks a little long, but it is hard to tell for sure.

As for your other belt breaking, they do break from time to time.  If it was frozen when you tried engaging it you could have burned the belt.  Also as the new belt kept stalling the engine, that might have ruined your new belt too.  Check it for any flat or burnt/melted spots.  As for your snow stuck inside, my guess would be that you loaded it up with a lot of weight on a belt that was already worn/ripped/cut and the weight just snapped the belt.  Once the belt broke there was nothing to throw the snow out of it.  Best way to melt it would be to put it in a garage in front of a heater.  An alternative method would be to tip it back on the handles and pour boiling water inside it to melt what is left.  If you use the water method you have to make sure you run it to dry itself out when you are done or you will end up with a bigger mess.

This guy has some good videos on youtube.  He has lots of videos on snow blowers so just do a search in his channel for snow or something.

Here is one for what happens to a belt if the auger is frozen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz6Y2P1MCcQ

Here are 2 videos for changing the belt on an MTD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nkS1gIuU-s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrOF0ag6RRo

And here are the belts for a different style Husqy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnAOcOmoK2o

One last thing.  You said your shear bolts were fine.  You should make sure they are shear bolts and not regular bolts from a hardware store.  You should also pull them out and make sure that both spirals in the front spin freely with the bolts out.  If they have grease fittings put some grease in them and spin them around a few times before putting the bolts back in.  If they get rusted in place or if someone uses the wrong kind of bolts it can end up ruining the gear box if you hit something and jam them up.

SSSJ: If you post again please give the full factory number off the back of the base below the handlebars.   That will ID your machine specifically.  There are a number of 611 variations but I think you have a 5hp 22 inch MTD which makes snowblowers labeled Yard Machines. 

Shryp: The sticker is about wheel pin locking.  The belt is cogged.

Borat: There is no auger belt guide on this machine.

SSSJ: The belt number you listed in the first post is correct.  It's a 5/8 35 inch cogged belt and does fit very loose on those machines.   The looseness is to allow slip when the engine is turning.  The auger belt in its pulley slips on the pulley until you press the auger clutch.  Pressing the auger clutch brings the tensioner pulley (the white one under the auger pulley) into the belt to tighten it so the auger drive pulley below will turn. 

A comment about looseness of the fit of the auger belt.  The belt is very loose on those and  your's looks about normal or slightly loose.  You can change that in two ways:

1. Under the auger clutch is a barrel and nut at the cable end.  You can loosen the nut and turn the barrel to take up slack in the cable.  Not sure what the factory adjustment is but there should probably be no slack in the cable or very little.  This adjustment will determine how far tensioner pulley goes into the auger belt when the auger clutch is pressed.

2. There is also an adjusting on the white tensioner pulley.  That pulley is mated to an arm and has about 1 inch of adjustment.  (Look at the center of the white pulley to see the adjustment). You could check it and if there is room left you could adjust it closer into the belt by loosening the nuts.  That may draw off enough slack to help out and keep the belt on.  If your tensioner was fully away then that is likely the problem with the belt comming off.

Between adjustments of 1 and 2 the belt should stay on when snowblowing.  It might take a couple of rounds to tune it in.   Keep in mind it should be fairly loose to allow slipping and from what I see in the pictures it's about right.  Since it slipped off then it could probably be tensioned a bit by 2 first then 1 later but you want to do 1 at least to get slack out.

The belt comming off could just be the tensioner pulley adjustments but could also be from the back auger bearing being worn.  You can check that easily by first

>>>>Pulling out the spark plug<<<<

Then stick your hand into the front and grab the auger drive shaft (has the impeller on it) as close to the impeller as you can and try to shake it up/down/and sideways.  Is it tight or loose?  If loose it will ride up a little causing the big pulley in the back of the housing to ride up (the pulley the top pulley is driving).  If enough slop it could cause the auger drive belt to come off occasionally.  It would ride ok for a while but cause a problem when enough pressure from a bump or snowblowing happens so act inconsistantly.    

Everything seems ok except the belt came off.   If it comes off again you can measure it. 

Just checked what I hope is your manual.  The clutch adjustment is just getting the slack out so there is no pressure lifting the lever up.  When you first press the handle it should be free and not tension then immediatly start to take up tension and more as you go down.  It does not have to be exact.  The other is #2 above and that is relative to what is going on i.e. if your belt is comming off or the belt slipping when blowing slow then more tension.

SSSJ: >>>By the way auger belt is amost touching the base of chute, is it normal?

  On that machine the close fit is normal.  It almost touches. 

There is a manual for your machine at the link below.  Give it that factory  number and 1 for a serial number.  The owners manual includes a parts exploded view section.  It's the model I thought so what I mentioned above is ok for that machine.

http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do

Oh Sorry... model# is 31B-611D352. Will have to read your kind replies in detail after getting done with kids' after school activities. Thanks! Picture of the tag http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5238724599/

Luckily auger drive shaft wasn't loose at all. Still not sure how to adjust white tensioner pulley (screw it onto the lower hole on the same arm?), so instead I tighten the auger cable. Actually I've done this before, but this time with the belt cover off, I could see it can be tightened even more. Although the slack on the cable is almost all gone, the auger belt is now more snug. Last night we finally had enough new snow so today I get to try out the snow thrower. It worked beautifully with the new snow, as well as the older, more packed piles. I was so happy I played with it for almost 2 hours, blowing my neighbor's snow as well. Oh... I haven't mentioned that one auger blade is bent at the very end of the spiral (I didn't do it). Should I try to bend it straight, or just leave it? http://www.flickr.com/photos/sssj/5249075808/ I've never seen a snow thrower in real life till 3 months ago and never touched one till Thanksgiving. Today I'm feeling confident using one, and fixing it too thanks to all of you who took the time to help me. Some are really amazing experts and you truly know your stuff!

SSSJ wrote:

Looked at your pictures and I would say straighten it out. Heat it up and bend it back compared to the other auger. Close will do but go for it. Also in one of your pics I noticed oil on the crank case in the area of the yellow oil cap. Make sure you have enough oil or else you know what might be your next chore.

Even without a torch you can probably straighten it out some with just a crescent wrench.  You probably don't want to hammer on it much because your gearbox is only aluminum.  That part of the auger is responsible for pushing the snow back into the impeller.

SSSJ:  Luckily auger drive shaft wasn't loose at all.

 

    That’s good.  You never mentioned squealing noises so the back auger drive shaft support bearing in back of the impeller will probably stay ok for several years.   

 

SSSJ: Still not sure how to adjust white tensioner pulley (screw it onto the lower hole on the same arm?), so instead I tighten the auger cable.

 

You got it and understand the purpose of the lower hole.

 

 The 522’s 611 models were not all exactly the same.  Some had a 1 inch slot in the tensioner arm to adjust the pulley closer to the belt.  Others had the lower hole.  Any further adjustment past the little cable adjust you have left is probably years off. 

 

For future reference: Getting the tensioner pulley nut out will probably require separating the bucket from the tractor section.  That you can do and would require a couple of hours.  -  or - Those models had so much belt slack that you can drop a belt size from 35 inch to 34 and fully back off on the cable adjust.  Belt places usually let you return a belt so trying that is not a big deal. 

Best case it will work fine.  Worse case is the belt will not slip fully and the augers turn slowly when the auger clutch is not engaged.  That’s ok as they will be turning without power by the belt being slightly caught by the pulley.  If you drove into snow with no clutch press the augers would stop and the belt then slip.   With use the belt would eventually stretch and slip like normal.   

 

SSSJ: I played with it for almost 2 hours, blowing my neighbor's snow as well.

   Snowblower fever has set in and never enough snow in your own yard for a fix.  Your 522 is in great shape, is a nicely designed machine and a wicked nice motor.  Check out the link for maintenance info:

 http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/50431-0-1.html

 Nice job.  I discussed your fine analysis and agressove stick-to-it-ive-ness work in the posts with the forum admin.  You have been promoted two Snowman ranks from Snowman One to Snowman Three the hash marks for which you can attach to your winter jacket sleeve. Congradulations.

Yard Machine Model#: 31B-611D352 So I'll need Shear Bolt 710-0890A 5/16-18 x 1.5, and Hex Lock Nuts 712-0429 5/16-18 Where's a good place to buy and how many more should I get as back ups? Thank you!!!

Don't have experience with your particular blower, so I did some quick online searching for the part number.
These are two places I have ordered from before.

(1) = $0.86: http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/41-8627.html
(4) = $6.59: http://www.amazon.com/Arnold-OEM-710-0890-Thrower-Replaces-710-0890/dp/B000BPNVDC   *Note: Picture shows 4, but I don't see a quantity listed anywhere*

You can never have too many :)

If you have only the 2 in the blower now, they will both break the next time you use it.  If you have 20 sitting in the garage, you will never need them.
I would say maybe keep 5-10 around just incase you have a bad spell.  I only broke one last year, but that was in an old Toro that used regular bolts.
For all I know it could have just vibrated itself loose as it disappeared all on its own without me hitting anything, at least at that time.

You are probably just going to have to look around and see where you can get the best deal for the cheapest price and don't forget to add in shipping.
If you are already ordering some stuff from somewhere, you can probably add them too for minimal cost.

If you are in a hurry or like supporting local businesses, you should be able to pick them up at any small engine repair place, hardware store, or some place like Home Depot.
Just make sure to get shear bolts and not regular bolts, however I have read that grade 2 bolts can sometimes be used as replacements.  Grade 5 and grade 8 are no nos.

Go to a hardware store and bring in a piece of your broken shear pin.  Ask them for an equivalent size bolt of low grade steel that can be substituted for the shear pin.  Also  ask for a few  nylock nuts to go with the bolts.  That will cost you a fraction of what a dealer will charge for shear pins.  I've used them with no problems.  Just make sure they are low grade steel.