Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

HONDA makes a halogen round light for 60 bucks.  It's OK, but lets be real here, LED's are the Future, and they have lots of light for a little juice, so why isn't the Honda Snowblower equipped with one ?   I found a LED that has 5 - One Watt LED's, and throws 400 Lumens that would look great, if it'd work. It is a 12 Volt  utility light, for about the same price as the Honda OEM that I don't like.  I'm no Electrician, so I'm looking for advice here from somebody who is.  Also if not this light, is there one that would work that is an LED ?

New_Yorker wrote:

The problem with LED lights is that they produce a LOT of heat. Cheap ones will strobe which gives me major headaches. Your best bet is to go here and get something that will work for you. I use mine and it works awesome. I have a NiteCore D10 and it will go a long time at full power at like 140 lumens. The site i've listed doesn't sell them any more but they have a ton of great stuff and a bicycle light mounted on the handlebar would work great, as would straping one to your head. There is a forum that talks all about this stuff. They sell stuff that will light up your world like day time! The future is portability.

http://www.4sevens.com/

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/portal/index.php

Ariens sells two different headlight kits throught Home Depot.I am not sure that these are led, I have never tried them. 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=ariens+headight&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I'm a fairly active participant over at candlepowerforums. All the information you need is there. I think you would want 2 lights. 1 flood, 1 more focused. Go to dealextreme.com or kaidomain.com and find a light that can be powered by 4 lithium cells or one that has a 12V+ input. Remove the battery tube and hardwire it into your electrical system. You may need to add a capacitor if the blowers 12V output is not quite smooth enough.
I built some flag pole lights for a friend that used 4 SSC P7 LEDs per light. Even at low power, they make ~ 2000 Lumens per light and use about 38W. 2000 Lumens might seem arbitrary, but a 100W household lightbulb makes about 1200 Lumens.

"The problem with LED lights is that they produce a LOT of heat."

News to me.  Maybe I'm using "cool running" LEDs.  None of my LED lights produce any heat.

Same here. I use LED lighting for my band lighting, primarily because they consume very little power, and produce no heat.

I live in the middle of the woods and it's pitch black here at night, especially during a storm. I've never had visibility problems during nightitme clean ups with the stock light package from Honda. Not saying there is not something better but why go outside the box for marginal benefits? I guess if I needed a bit more light I'd probably use a headlight/strap set up just to be able to see in the direction you're looking. The only issue I would see here is that it might not work that good when using the hood of your coat - which I use quite often as it keeps the snow out of your back and protects your face.

borat wrote:

LED lights use a heat sink to draw the heat away. If they have a bad heat sink you'll know it very quickly as the bulb will burn out fast. The reason we don't have LED lights in our homes is the cost and teh heat sinks required are quite large. I've seen the BIG ones they have and at 13 watts they put out a boatload of lumens. Cost per light is ~$140 each.

Bur if you go on Candlepower forums as I've listed you will find the enemy is heat. Heat is relative to size and power. My Husky 4 watt produces a lot of heat but is insanely bright for a 2 D cell $25 flashlight. best $25 I've even spent. My Nitecore D10 I carry everywhere and it's a great light too.

So many lights are sold that can be used on a snowblower. I use Sanyo Eneloop batteries for all my AA needs and nothing is better.

First let me thank everyone for their input.  I can, obviously, buy and use the Honda OEM Light kit.  I was simply trying to learn if anyone can explain the problem with installing an equally expensive LED utility light that has 5 One watt LED's that willl put out 400 lumens of light.  I have new 2010 car with LED headlights, the old car had High Intensity Discharge headlamps that were not as bright, and a lot more prone to failure.  LED's have proven to be very efficient, durable and powerful light sources, hence my interest before forking over the buckaroos for the old technology Halogen Honda light. Finding an explanation of how these lights are powered with a one cylinder engine, would be useful, but even that does not seem to exist. The 9 HP Honda GX 270 engine is first rate, and well proven for durability, and dependability.

The heat that the LEDs produce is not the same heat as a conventional bulb produces. A filamented bulb produces heat in the filament that produces light. An LED produces heat as a byproduct. High power LEDs NEED to be properly heat sinked if they are to be operated any where near their maximum output.

Read around candlepower forums.

JimmyM wrote:
Do you think the OP needs a "high power" LED on his snow thrower.   That's something altogether different than anything powered with A A cells or D cells wouldn't you think?   I have a K2 LED lamp that generates a great deal of light, generates no heat and gives great battery life.  Something in that class would be all that's required for a snow thrower.   I doubt that  LED lights that generate a lot of heat could be powered by a snow thrower.

borat wrote:

I think heat is a relative term. My Nitecore D10 actually produces a lot of heat for it's size, which is a single Sanyo Eneloop AA battery. That doesn't mean much compared to a human hand. But if you take off the heat sink the bulb will not last very long without burning out.

This OP should ask this question in Candlepower forums. No doubt they will have the answer about any LED related light. The factory Halogen will likely be cheaper.

I think the comments about leds producing a lot of heat in this application are totally misleading. I have quite a few led lights including Vector 26 bulb work light. It produces no heat. The bulbs are set in a plastic, the lens is plastic. I was discharging it the other night and it was on for 3 hours. There was no heat being generated by the light. Maybe there are some application where the leds do produce a lot of heat. But I have never seen a 12V DC unit that produced any.

http://vehiclelight.com/39993.html   Here is the light I am interested in using, if possible.  I am not concerned about heat, I am concerned that the stator on the one cylinder 9 HP Honda  engine, that generates the electrical power,  may produce too much power for a light unit that draws less than 2 amps.  Anyone who has used a battery powered LED would wonder that heat could ever be a problem.  I use a head band light with three LED's when I am out at night with the snowblower and it is very effective.  The unit I am intending would mount on the panel above the engine, between the handles, and flood the area ahead with 400 lumns of light.  In th end I may just have to gamble, and buy the light, connect it, and see what happens.  Thank you all for your opinions.

New_Yorker wrote:

Go here  http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php  and ask these guys. They really know everything about LED lights and what you will need for your application. They may have a better solution or tell you how to make that light work with your snowblower.

jrtrebor wrote:

Ok here goes: http://patmullins.com/ledlightmyths.html#toc2

"LEDs produce more light per watt than an incandescent bulb.  But most of the watts they consume is still converted to heat, and if not dissipated, will drastically shorten their life.  Heat doesn't radiate from an LED, so it must be conducted away, usually into an exchanger to free flowing air.  The LED junction must operate below about 85°C."

And from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode

"Like other lighting devices, LED performance is temperature dependent. Most manufacturers’ published ratings of LEDs are for an operating temperature of 25°C. LEDs used outdoors, such as traffic signals or in-pavement signal lights, and that are utilized in climates where the temperature within the luminaire gets very hot, could result in low signal intensities or even failure.^[36]

LED light output actually rises at colder temperatures (leveling off depending on type at around -30C^{[citation needed]}). Consequently, LED technology may be a good replacement in uses such as supermarket freezer lighting^[37][38][39] and will last longer than other technologies. Because LEDs emit less heat than incandescent bulbs, they are an energy-efficient technology for uses such as freezers. However, because they emit little heat, ice and snow may build up on the LED luminaire in colder climates.^[36] This lack of waste heat generation has been observed to cause sometimes significant problems with street traffic signals and airport runway lighting in snow-prone areas, although some research has been done to try to develop heat sink technologies to transfer heat to other areas of the luminaire."

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Nothing in the above says anything about LEDs producing a lot of heat.   On the contrary.  Their lack of heat in cold climates seems to be an issue.   I have exterior LED Christmas lights that don't even melt the snow off of themselves.  So, where's the heat?

borat wrote:

LED lights run hot but not like halogen lights the above article explains it. If that isn't good enough then not much left to explain.

We're talking about heat in practical terms. He's talking who knows what. I love this "I think heat is a relative term. My Nitecore D10 actually produces a lot of heat for it's size, which is a single Sanyo Eneloop AA battery. That doesn't mean much compared to a human hand. But if you take off the heat sink the bulb will not last very long without burning out. He seems to be one of those persons who reads a lot of information on the internet and then thinks he has practical useable knowledge on a subject. There is a city near where I live that installed LED traffic signals to save money on electricity. Unfortunately they are now spending more in labor to keep the lights clear of snow and Ice than they are saving on their electric bill.

I just put a rechargable 1 million watt lantern lite on mine. You can put 2 on yours if you wish. I mounted mine on my handle bars. If you like led lights you can find those too. Get the rechargable ones. The wire you normaly use  to power your old light ,you use to charge these lights. Just splice the charger wires to your blower wires. You can put a switch between them . If your snow blower does not have a provisions for a light. You can run off the battery in the light.
     A million watt lantern light is more than enough lite.

The LED lights don't give off a lot of heat, but the LED (diode) itself does get very hot, and, as mentioned, won't last too long if it doesn't get rid of that heat.  Think of the head of a pin getting red hot - it won't throw off much heat, but can be very hot and easily destroyed with that extra heat. 

You will find a HUGE range in LED prices, and in general the price gap is due to the more expensive lights having better heatsinks and better reflectors.  A $60 single AA-cell LED light will probably throw more useful light than a $10 3D-cell LED flashlight, be much more efficient and much more durable, so buyer-beware.  Most of the good LED lights can't be found at your local chain store, although they are getting better.  ChinaMart now sells Energizer LED headlamps that put out decent light for under $20, although they are still a far cry from the good $60 LED headlamps in terms of weight, efficiency, durability and light output.  Also at ChinaMart you can get a Black&Decker LED spotlight for under $20 that will out-throw many rechargeable 1-2mcp spotlights, is half the size and weight and will run 20hrs/78hrs on high/low on 4 C-cells.  However, for the good stuff, you generally still need to go online to mfrs. like Fenix, 4Sevens, Nitecore, Peak, HDS, etc.

LED technology is definitely getting better.  In many cases it outperforms traditional incandescent lighting, although incan lighting will always have its place (warm light, glow, etc.).  Also, LED's thus far don't lend themselves well to interior room lighting, in part due to the traditional light fixtures themselves.

Btw, my 2AA Fenix TK20 easily outperforms my 3C Maglite in throw, spill, light quality, and battery life, and is more durable - however, Maglite is slowly catching up with their latest LED lights.

bus708 wrote:
I know that's a typo, I also know you meant 1 million candlepower, and I'm not picking on you, really. I just found this idea really funny ... think about it, 2  one-megawatt lamps on wheels, no engine, impeller, augers, nothing else needed. Except a a small fusion plant to provide power. It'll melt the snow before you can even get close to it.  Welding helmet recommended.

Cost might be a problem. Also, burning asphalt smells pretty bad.

New_Yorker wrote:
Does the Honda halogen light have sufficient output for your expectation or you rather spend $60 on cool LED's?  I wouldn't expect Honda to have LED lights anytime soon.  The current model hasn't changed in much in the last 5 years.  One advantage of the old halogen light is has a defroster built in. 

My HS1132TAS came with the halogen lights.  I find the light output more than adequate for lighting up the area in front of the snowblower.  I wouldn't mind it being LED for the whiter light and better focus to cut through the scatter from the snow like a fog light.  I might fabricate something from an automotive fog light with LED with a bracket (or drift cutter bars) to mount 12 inches above the bucket.  The path in front of the snowblower is well lit without light reflecting back to the operator's eyes.  I would put function first over coolness and efficiency of the light though.

One option you may want to look into is bicycle LED lights with a battery pack.  They are very compact, sealed, and rugged, and can be mounted anywhere.  It will probably costs more than $60 though.

I agree the LED's are much Cooler looking, but that isn't my reason.  The LED Light I picked would fit nicely on the panel between the two handles, and thus illuminate the engine, as well as the area ahead of the machine.  That way if the engine needs gas, or maybe just to be cleaned of something, I can see better.  I'm sure the Halogen light works OK, and it gets hot enough to melt snow, I just thought I'd check out the LED possibility before I buy the Honda accessory light.  The LED draws 1.9 amps which isn't much, and the Halogen light Honda sells is a 50 watt Halogen bulb, both lights run on a 12 Volt system.  I just don't know if the electrical output of the engines stator would be too much for the LED to handle. I was hoping someone on the forum would know, but so far no luck.  An e-mail to the on line seller has not been responded to, so I may just go with the Honda light.