Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Greetings:

I'd like some help in ironing out specifics on snowblowers and the components that make them up (and make up their engines). I have collected some data from various places, but it seems that the manufacturers are VERY against disclosing any of the nitty-gritty details about the make-up of the snowblowers (which seems silly). I'd like to limit the thread to high quality construct (meaning at or near comercial grade) 24" or 28" 2010 snowblowers to try to keep things moving forward if possible. I'll start by listed information I've gathered on the two models I am looking at most currently. If you have any confirmed factual information, please post it; but I'd like to try to stay away from unconfirmed opinions or personal experience arguments if possible.

Ariens Platinum 24 (921017)
[Engine: Briggs & Stratton 1150]
- Moderate Fuel Efficiency *F
- Torque: 11.5 ft-lbs (SAE J1940) *WARNING: Class action lawsuit against B&S (and others including Honda) for creating a false standard J1940 to conceal horsepower fraud, so this number has no real-world value. Can anyone get a real number for this please, perhaps in SAE 1349 standard? Honda has corrected their HP/Torque ratings on their website, but B&S hasn't yet.  *D, *E
- Type: OHV *D
- Crankshaft: Ball Bearing  *Snowmann, *slinger

[Gearbox: SX Aluminum]
- Steel Worm Gear *G
- Bronze sleeve bearing *G (for sleeve), *Snowmann (for material)

[Movement: Drive Disc]
- Automatic Traction Control / Quick Turn *C
- Bronze Sleeve Bearing *G

[Auger]
- Serated *C
- Nylon Sleeve Bearing *G
- 14" *C

[Impeller]
- 14" *C

[Accessories]
- Light *C
- 120V Start *C
- Hand Warmer *C

[MSR]
- $1599 *C

Honda (HS724WA)
[Engine: GX200]
- Superior Fuel Efficiency *F
- Torque: 9.1 ft-lbs @ 2,500 rpm (SAE J1349 International Standard) *B
- Type: OHV *B
- Counter-Vibration *B
- Noise Reduction *B
- Crankshaft: Ball Bearing *A

[Gearbox]
- Steel Helical Gears *A
- Steel Ball Bearing *A

[Movement: Hydrostatic]
- Infinitely Variable *A
- Fixed 2wd *A

[Auger]
- Serated *A
- 14" *trouts2

[Impeller]
- 12" *trouts2

[MSR]
- $2299 *A

Notes
- SAE J1349 assumes 15% loss of power to internal friction; in reality, this is just an average and varies per engine (so less internal friction would mean the actual HP is higher) *this can be validated at any site that defines the SAE 1349 standard

Sources
- A : Honda Snowblower Specifications (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/snowblowers/content.aspx?asset=sb_whychoose) (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2SB&modelname=HS724WA&modelid=HS724WA)
- B: Honda Engine Specifications (http://engines.honda.com/models/model-detail/gx200)
- C: Ariens Specifications (http://www.ariens.com/products_snow/s_deluxe_platinum_group/s_deluxe_platinum_24/Pages/default.aspx)
- D: Briggs & Stratton Specifications (http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engines/other-engines/detail.aspx?series=1150+Series&id=%7BB8CACFAE-E522-4511-88F6-9DA80E1C1ADC%7D)
- E: Class-Action Engine HP Fraud Lawsuit (http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/Lawnmower_Horsepower_Fraud) *there are many other references, just google
- F: Personally inferred from many (>20) personal forum posts by different owners
- G: Ariens Parts Catalog (http://partsradar.arinet.com/scripts/EmpartISAPI.dll?MF&app=ariens&lang=EN&TF=Empartweb&loginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer)

*I can't seem to find the link to the online Honda parts catalog again (it was hard to find and I didn't bookmark it). If anyone finds it, please post the URL

I agree that opinions of real-world use is very important, but there are tons of other posts about that. What I failed to find no matter where I looked was a quantitative comparison and detailed analytical comparison of different like-machines components and construction practices. One thing that has become abundantly clear is that for every component that has been improved in the last 30 years, 3 components are now made less durable or from cheaper quality and build materials/design than they used to be. The problem is that no one knows this kind of info except the engineers that designed it (who aren't allowed to reveal that info) and people who have dug into the workings.

I guess I was hoping for more actual information from people and less having to defend myself for asking how well something is built. I just assumed that everyone would have thought knowing the construction quality of a machine was just as important as knowing how well the users like it.

I want to make a quick note about Manufacturers, though given this information, it is still important to know that different product lines and models will be constructed differently. If someone who knows wouldn't mind confirming these, I'd appreciate it.

MTD Builds:
- MTD
- Toro
- Troy Built
- Yard Man
- Yard Machines
- Cub Cadet

Briggs & Stratton Builds:
- Simplicity
- Snapper
- Murray
- John Deere

Ariens Builds:
- Ariens

Honda Builds:
- Honda

Husqvarna Builds:
- Husqvarna
- Craftsman
- Poulan

Sorry to say but you're sounding awfully identical to DavidNJ in this forum, as well as the other forum.  I'm not saying that you are, but if it quacks like a duck....

Good luck in your quest though.  We've gone through this in October with DavidNJ with over 400 posts.  Feel free explore and ask away. 

This sounds like a ponderous quest, not it can't be done, but maybe it should start with a simpler analysis of shovels. 

Electrocutor wrote:
If you ever work in a company that manufacture tangible products, you would understand why.  TMI does more harm than good.  Do you think a salesman will reveal what his margins are?  I wouldnt if I want to stay in business.

Yes the profile default to IP.

aa335 wrote:

Ding, ding, ding, Give that man a prize! You have nailed it on the mark.

Hopefully he won't get too abusive this time....

Most people looking for a snowblower in a first time post do not ask all about analytical details with no qualifications. They say hey I need a snowblower that will do my "insert driveway needs here" and where should I start or I heard "insert brand here" is really good. How does it compare to this "other" brand? This guy needs to go to a forum for manufacturers and see if he can get in their forums. This is an opinion site mostly. Most of those opinions are based on a lot of experience tho and that does mean something in the real world. Bench racing snowblowers doesn't blow snow, just hot air.

So... no one will help or knows any specifics about the internals workings of the Ariens, Honda, MTD, B&S, or Husqvarna higher-end 24/28 inch models? Having to take a salesman's word on things, especially when they have already provided one or two completely false statements bothers me. I was hoping to compile the first-hand knowledge about these snowblowers from people who know how they work and make an informed decision on that. I'm just a consumer, not a mechanic; and I only partially understand the information. For example, I know that whether you use sleeve or ball bearings matters, but the life-time of each depends on the application and construction: thus, sleeve bearings may be a more efficient and longer-lasting design decision given a certain design for one part, but ball bearings may be more efficient and longer-lasting for another part.

From all users opinions and reports of maintnance that I've read thus far, the Hondas and Ariens' Platinum line are in direct competition, with the Honda having a name premium, quieter operation, and hydro drive, and the Ariens having cheaper replacement parts, more accessories, and quick-turn/auto-traction. That said, a couple of the parts on the Honda seem to be universally viewed as superior (f.e. the Helical gearbox vs Worm). I'm torn between the two; and I don't have enough information about the other brands to do comparisons with their equivilent models.

Please help?

Ok.  Let's start with how much are you willing to spend, your driveway info, who's using it.  This is more relevant than who makes what.  You do want to blow snow and put it somewhere, do you?

FYI, it is rarely for people to cross shop between Ariens and Honda, just like Ford Mustang and Porsche 911.  Different camps. 

User is a ~175lb male. I'm concious about over-using machines and will not be over-agressive.

Clearing surface is unimportant: it is possible/likely that I will someday move and bring my quality snow-blower with me. The goal is to not buy 'junk' that will need fixing and replacing parts every 3-5 years: once upon a time things were made to last, that is no longer the case and you must take care to investigate how things are built nowadays to obtain the same quality of prduct.

Durability (low rate of part replacement), efficiency, and longevity are primary concerns; ease of use is secondary; price is tertiary.

I'm aware of the Honda vs Ariens loyalty camps, but products change over time and people need to be aware of what those changes are and whether they further improve the machine, or further reduce production cost and hurt the machine (this is also why everyone makes so many blasted models); that's why the Kowasaki Toro's of the past were so popular and the newer ones (that I've seen) can't hold a candle to them. If I had to choose at the current moment, I would be in the Honda camp, but I also know that Honda does add some price tag simply for the name.

To give an example: if the Ariens compact 24" had all the same quality of components as the Honda, then it would be silly to pay more than double the price just for the Honda name and Hydrostat transmission. This is, however, not the case and also a reason why Ariens makes the Deluxe, Platinum, and Professional lines.

(Now if the companies would get together and put a Honda/Yamaha engine, a differential-equipped Hydrostatic transmission, Ariens larger impeller/auger sizes, and Ariens accessories on one machine there would be a whole lot less bickering on this forum and everyone who didn't go straight for a budget blower would be happy; but some dreams simply will never come true)

Electrocutor wrote:
Electrocutor: You have an identical twin brother - his name is DavidNJ. Sidenote, is anyone else hearing the theme music from the Twilight Zone right now?....

IIRC no Huskys have been sold in US by Sears since 08-09 model year unless it was a leftover store model.  They are still sold in Canada though.  I asked Snowblowerdirect why they didn't sell Husky Crown models.  Their response was --->  "We are not allowed to carry those because they are not allowed to be displayed online."

Electrocutor wrote: