Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Greetings:

I'd like some help in ironing out specifics on snowblowers and the components that make them up (and make up their engines). I have collected some data from various places, but it seems that the manufacturers are VERY against disclosing any of the nitty-gritty details about the make-up of the snowblowers (which seems silly). I'd like to limit the thread to high quality construct (meaning at or near comercial grade) 24" or 28" 2010 snowblowers to try to keep things moving forward if possible. I'll start by listed information I've gathered on the two models I am looking at most currently. If you have any confirmed factual information, please post it; but I'd like to try to stay away from unconfirmed opinions or personal experience arguments if possible.

Ariens Platinum 24 (921017)
[Engine: Briggs & Stratton 1150]
- Moderate Fuel Efficiency *F
- Torque: 11.5 ft-lbs (SAE J1940) *WARNING: Class action lawsuit against B&S (and others including Honda) for creating a false standard J1940 to conceal horsepower fraud, so this number has no real-world value. Can anyone get a real number for this please, perhaps in SAE 1349 standard? Honda has corrected their HP/Torque ratings on their website, but B&S hasn't yet.  *D, *E
- Type: OHV *D
- Crankshaft: Ball Bearing  *Snowmann, *slinger

[Gearbox: SX Aluminum]
- Steel Worm Gear *G
- Bronze sleeve bearing *G (for sleeve), *Snowmann (for material)

[Movement: Drive Disc]
- Automatic Traction Control / Quick Turn *C
- Bronze Sleeve Bearing *G

[Auger]
- Serated *C
- Nylon Sleeve Bearing *G
- 14" *C

[Impeller]
- 14" *C

[Accessories]
- Light *C
- 120V Start *C
- Hand Warmer *C

[MSR]
- $1599 *C

Honda (HS724WA)
[Engine: GX200]
- Superior Fuel Efficiency *F
- Torque: 9.1 ft-lbs @ 2,500 rpm (SAE J1349 International Standard) *B
- Type: OHV *B
- Counter-Vibration *B
- Noise Reduction *B
- Crankshaft: Ball Bearing *A

[Gearbox]
- Steel Helical Gears *A
- Steel Ball Bearing *A

[Movement: Hydrostatic]
- Infinitely Variable *A
- Fixed 2wd *A

[Auger]
- Serated *A
- 14" *trouts2

[Impeller]
- 12" *trouts2

[MSR]
- $2299 *A

Notes
- SAE J1349 assumes 15% loss of power to internal friction; in reality, this is just an average and varies per engine (so less internal friction would mean the actual HP is higher) *this can be validated at any site that defines the SAE 1349 standard

Sources
- A : Honda Snowblower Specifications (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/snowblowers/content.aspx?asset=sb_whychoose) (http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2SB&modelname=HS724WA&modelid=HS724WA)
- B: Honda Engine Specifications (http://engines.honda.com/models/model-detail/gx200)
- C: Ariens Specifications (http://www.ariens.com/products_snow/s_deluxe_platinum_group/s_deluxe_platinum_24/Pages/default.aspx)
- D: Briggs & Stratton Specifications (http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engines/other-engines/detail.aspx?series=1150+Series&id=%7BB8CACFAE-E522-4511-88F6-9DA80E1C1ADC%7D)
- E: Class-Action Engine HP Fraud Lawsuit (http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/Lawnmower_Horsepower_Fraud) *there are many other references, just google
- F: Personally inferred from many (>20) personal forum posts by different owners
- G: Ariens Parts Catalog (http://partsradar.arinet.com/scripts/EmpartISAPI.dll?MF&app=ariens&lang=EN&TF=Empartweb&loginID=ariensc&loginpwd=consumer)

*I can't seem to find the link to the online Honda parts catalog again (it was hard to find and I didn't bookmark it). If anyone finds it, please post the URL

Congrats on deciding on the HS724, it is IMO, one of the finest built 24" snowblower today, although not the strongest or the gutsiest.  But I'm sure that's not your primary concern.  Your choice is the best choice for yourself, simple, everybody has their angle.  Most manufacturers typically do not make high end 24", limited customer base.  IMO, that is only met by Honda, Yamaha, and Simplicity.

If you value maneuverability, compactness, and build quality, the 724 fills these requirement exactly.  It is a beautiful machine, kind like Wall-e with a bucket and handles.  :)  You can see attention to details like cable management, clean welds, straightforward and convenient choke/throttle, engine shutoff placement, and nice rubber coated handle levers, with just the right amount of cable tension and minimal slack.  Try playing around with John Deere high-end 1330SE handles and levers for comparison and make up your own conclusion.

In reply to your comment about manufacturers skimping on quality and offering budget models, I wouldn't place the burden of responsibility solely on manufacturers and creative sales force.  Supply meets demand.  Consumers are buying lower priced models expecting it to be feature rich and you will see more of it.  You can be active and vote for people in office that represents your goals and needs, or you can just sit back and complain.  I digress, but hope you get the idea.

Sorry if this thread doesn't go in the direction you wanted it to.  Your questions are loaded and people here just don't have the answers that you expect.  People here offer their opinions and experiences, not as an engineer, but as a consumer/user/modders, ect...
The best you can do is take the normal distribution curve as common and useful opinions/fact and disregard the two extreme tail ends, for statistical sake.

Be sure to post pictures of your new toy.  This forum is in shortage of new shiny Honda snowblowers. :)

aa335 wrote:

I don't own a camera (never had need for photos), so I won't be able to do that. The dealer said the most expensive part of the Hondas compared to other brands is the shipping to get them; they have to order them in bulk or have to pay a ridiculous amount on shipping (compared to the Ariens and Deeres they also sell). He is going to see if he can get mine ordered alongside a shipment of generators to see if he can cut down the shipping costs that he would have to pass on to me.

As of 2004, Simplicity is no longer Simplicity. John Deere this year are no longer green-painted Ariens, they are green-painted Murray, which are Briggs, just like the newer Simplicity.

How much would that shipping cost be if he pass it on to you?  Smells like fish to me.

He says he can get the hs724wa to me for 1800 normally, but if he can get the individual shipping off, he can get it down to 1600.

Those seem like very FAIR prices.
Maybe Honda gurus can advise how much play MSRP.% during the offseason.

3 of 3 dealers I called wanted retail. One was $100 off MSRP. YMMV.

Electrocutor wrote:
$1800 is a GOOD deal, never heard of $1600 for a new HS724WA.  What area are you in?  I'd close on the deal before he figures out the mistake. 

These would normally be $2000 around here, and if you haven't spoken for them already, they're sold out by mid November.  Track model sells really fast.  Get it now or put in your order for next year.  When the snow hits the ground, you'd be lucky to find any new ones at MSRP in stock.  Make no mistake, Honda do not over produce to let excess inventory sit around.  My nearest dealer already sold every allocation for 2010 year in the Spring.

Electrocutor wrote:

If you work at $20/hr for 150 hours you could pay someone to clear the snow for you for the next 5 years. You'd be way ahead. Or buy a big box cheapo and put 50 hours into maintenance - you'll be 100 hours and hundreds of dollars ahead.

Bill_H wrote:
I was thinking of exactly the same thing.  You are definitely pragmatic.

Taking that one step further, $20/hr x 150hrs = $3000.  After taxes, take home maybe around $2500?  Give or take a few hundred dollars.

Geez, for $2500, I'd park that Ariens Platinum 24" snowblower in the garage in addition to that Honda 724WA that I was going to buy anyways.  Couldn't make a wrong decisions buying both machines that I was looking at.

only 150 hrs of research?David that is not enough to make an informed decision.Get back to us after you do some more research.Like another 150 hrs lol.

mikiewest wrote:
Doesn't really matter.  It is what it is.