Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

As Trouts2 pointed out, notice how the Ariens has no roller bearings on the ends of the auger shaft.  It's just a crummy nylon sleeve bushing.  Pitiful.

Ariens will tell you that customers didn't perform the maintenance on those bearings, making them a potential reliablity issue. Removing them apparently did not affect performance.

Are you sure that is a Nylon bearing or a nylon sleeve spacer?

Friiy

It is a Nylon Flanged Sleeve Bearing.  Trouts2 says that these wear out way too quickly.  

Yuck....  I wonder if you can put a peice of bronze bearing stock in when if fails.?

Friiy

Slinger, sorry if what I wrote express that.  Those bearings last but are a wear point I see all the time in older machines.  They do last and don't crapout quickly.   But roller bearings over nylon would be an advantage in a machine.  If you have a machine for a long time you'll probalby replace them once. 

Another point:  MTD uses nylong inserts on the rake ends (not talking about the support bearings), inserts on the ends of the rake.  Other manf's do not have them.  It could be to take up any chatter or slop between the rake and the axle.  It could be to get lift off the axle so it does not rust freeze to the axle.  They turn with the axle and rake unlike the support bearings which are fixed but do wear probalby from small vibrations.  I can't remember an MTD rake rust frozen to it's axle.  They don't have zerks but it may be due to the fit between the rake and the axle with using these bearings.

What is a 'rake'?

I think the easy answer is to just find a bronze flanged sleeve bearing and replace it.  There should be one available in the exact same size.  If I really wanted to I could probably find a Flange mount ball bearing block that fits the outside of the auger shaft.  I would have to drill new mounting holes in the side of the bucket for mounting, but that wouldn't be a big deal. 

These are fairly modestly priced machines. This is apparently not a performance issue; as a wear issue, does it justify the effort and expense?

I like bronze for peple that don't take care of things .... Bronze doesn't rust and tear up the shaft...   For myself,  I like good sealed or with a grease zerk..

friiy

The bronze bearings are a drop-in $5 part.  I'm not sure of the labor, but it  doesn't appear to be ridiculous.

Not sure what Ariens uses for these "plastic bushings" but bronze is not always better than "plastic" for bearings.  The company I work for uses composite bearings in many places where bronze bushings and roller element bearings were traditionally used.  You can read about some of the benefits of composite bearings here.  http://polygoncomposites.com/division/products/bushings/compare/   In applications where rotational speeds are slow (like a snow thrower rake, suspension pivot, etc) roller element bearings are overkill.  Good composite bearings need no service, are lighter, have better impact resistance, and have a better load rating than similar sized roller or bronze bearings.  They are also not affected by corrosion like steel roller bearings.  Given proper maintenance and correct sizing in the original design, a bronze or roller bearing would likely last about the same amount of time as a good composite bearing in slow moving applications, but if the customer doesn't do proper maintenance, which is often the case, the composite bearing will likely outlast bronze or roller bearings. 

bdresch wrote:

Which is Arien's point. Most people do minimum maintenance. Oil changes, maybe. Belts when they break or slip. Cables and springs when they break. Similar to a washing machine or oven.

I sure don't miss pumping grease into car suspensions so sealed or no maintenance components are great.

Ariens part list as well as part supply warehouses list the part as "Nylon".   Regular Nylon has about 400 psi load capacity in this application.  Other high performance plastic bearings (Delrin, Rulon, PEEK, UMHW, Vespel) have from double to 20 times the load capacity as Nylon.  Bronze bearings have 5 to 12 times the load capacity of nylon.  All of these mentioned are available in a flanged sleeve bearing and I'll bet in the same size as the Ariens part.  There are also oil impregnated bronze bearings as well as graphite filled bronze bearings with 4000psi ratings.  In short, it would have been very easy to design a much more durable part here for a couple of bucks.  Is the load on the Auger really that low that the cheapest solution possible is sufficient?  Frankly I agree with another prominent poster on this forum who said "shame on Ariens and Toro" with respect to this design. 

slinger wrote:

Have people had issues with them? We're throwing snow here, not drilling into the ground -- I would bet that it's sufficient and will last a long time performing its purpose.

Notice the that the Ariens is using a Y-mount and the Briggs (Deere in this case) is using a vertical shaft. I've come to think Ariens does virtually nothing by accident and just caught by surprise rarely. After this bushing discussion I'm thing the Y is to provide left/right alignment and the rod doesn't need to because of the side support.

Do you agree?

Two summers ago I fixed a 2004-2005 932105-ST8526LE which uses the blue bearing shown with it's holder.  It's the bearing for the wheel drive axle.  The bronze bearing is from an older Ariens and usually good for many years 20-30+ at least in a 724 in home service.

 

 

The repaired machine was bought second hand and he had it for two seasons clearing a 2 car wide barely 2 deep driveway.  The machine came from another homeowner so not a lot of  taxing service for a wheel bearing.  That would put the blue bearing at about 3-4 seasons of service.  

 

 

The part callout is: Bushing, Flange Split Nyliner .75”HP  Not sure what the material is and it could be more durable than the bronze but the load is riding on a much smaller area than the old bearing.  It was so worn the machine was riding the holder which was slightly worn.  

 

 

I've replaced two of these in newer home owner machines.  Not an inditement of Ariens parts but I usually replace wheel bearings on Ariens 70's and 80's machines.  I love putting a new motor on a 30-40 year old Ariens.  All that's usually needed is wheel and auger support bearings and the thing is ready for many more years of service.  Tens years from now the electric chute parts on new machines probalby won't be available.  There will probably be lots of service calls for blue bearing repairs.

 

 

The same blue bushing is used on the rake support ends.

jviera1298, I just bought the same platinum 24 that you did and I think for what we paid that Ariens went cheap on this part.  It may last for a while but it sure as heck isn't going to be as good as a ball or roller bearing.  Maybe they should just use nylon bushings on the impeller shaft too...how about the wheel axles?   I'm sorry but in my view the auger will bear a lot of load over time and I have to believe that for a couple of dollars it could have been done better. (that's my only point) 

I think the Y bracket to support the gear case serves to add stability in a number of different axis, not the least of which is side to side, because the auger shaft is not attached to the sides of the bucket, it just floats on the bearing support shaft.  If retrofitted with a flanged bearing blocks, the auger shaft could be tightened to the bearing with set screws and in turn make the entire bucket (sides) more rigid.

DavidNJ wrote:
The Y-mount is just a different implementation to achieve the same objective.  Can't see it being any better than vertical shaft or plate with same stiffness.. 

I do like the Deere bucket up close though.  Simple, clean, robust design.

The composit bearings are made for their application I believe... The problem I found on other types of equipment is the composite will pick up grit and act like a sandpaper on the bearing surface... surprisingly the shaft will wear quicker than the plastic/ composite  ( The grit gets impregnated into the bearing and lapped it to death over time)

Friiy

If Ariens uses Nilon  buslings for bearings. how does it get grease?  I have a 924108. All I see is grease fittings for the auger blades not the bushings

The material has self lubricating properties. Kinda like ice, it's naturally slippery. So no need to add grease. Actually grease may do more harm the good because it attracts dirt and grit, making it abrasive instead of smooth. See reply #21.

After looking into the "Nyliner" (blue bearing shown above) issue, it seems that it is a decent bearing material but it is made of such thin material (.025"- .06" depending on bearing size) that it just looks like a problem waiting to happen.  They supposedly require no lube and the spiral split in the bearing allows for thermal expansion. The problem for me will be that the material is so thin that an upgrade to a standard bronze sleeve bearing will probably not fit into the bearing support (3 holed metal piece also shown above) without drilling.

Does anyone know why Ariens uses a different bearing (material, design & bearing support style) altogether on a Deluxe/Platinum auger rake shaft than is used on both the Compact & Professional series? Nylon (white) bearing on Deluxe platinum and thinner Nyliner (blue) bearings on the other 2 series.  At least the Nyliner material claims to be a superior bearing material although it's super thin (0.025"- 0.06") depending on bearing size.  As far as I can tell the nylon bearing is plain old cast nylon which is shown to be one of the more mediocre performing materials when compared to these new self-lubricating materials or oil impregnated bronze.  

I have a Ariens 924708-- it does not have any grease fittings for the auger bushings. I see a brass bushing but no plastic or other material  incert. I ask Ariens, they seem to give me the blow off.  I asked them how to grease it. they first said it does not need grease.  I told them it is spinning metal to metal what is to keep it from wareing out . They then said the grease fron greasing the auger shaft will find its way into the bushing.   WRONG ANSWER-   Any ideas on how to grease it.

It is probably an oil impregnated bronze sleeve bearing, also known as an Oilite bearing.  It is made from a porous SAE 841 alloy which carries between 17-20% SAE 30 oil within it's pores.  The oil acts as a cushion between the bearing and the shaft, adding resistance to shock loads (suddenly applied loads) and wear.  They are virtually maintenance free.  If you feel compelled to lube it I suppose a little additional SAE 30 oil applied into the seam where the bearing flange is showing couldn't hurt.