Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was reading about the Clarence impeller improvement online today. It attaches a rubber gasket to each impeller blade ceiling it against impeller housing. Most who tried it seemed to report outstanding results especially with heavy wet snow. The only place where some reported it may not be effective were on units, such as the Honda, that reportedly have very tight clearances tween the impeller blades and the housing from the factory.

Ariens snowblowers are well-known for their high-capacity high capacity. Well most large snowblowers at 12 inch diameter impellers, the Ariens have 14 inch. That is over 16% faster speed at the end of the impeller blade. Does that give them a decisive edge?

So the question is: how important is the design of the impeller to the overall system performance? Are tight clearances between the impeller and it's housing critical? If so, which brands have the tightest ones? Is the diameter of the impeller critical? If so, did he Ariens and others with large impellers have a distinct advantage? The Clarence kit is inexpensive if you can install it yourself. Should everybody be installing these kits? TheToro has a unique impeller housing. Partially plastic, it has a return for excess snow to be returned to scoop. The effective Toro and edge or is it a disadvantage?

Toro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTAAaT_sFss

DavidNJ wrote:

I speculate that Honda does not have "steering" due to the fact that the same frame has to accommodate both wheeled and track models. In addition, there also needs to be two separate hydrostatic motors to drive the wheels/track independently, and controller unit, similar to zero turn lawn mowers. This would drive up the cost and complexity that few of us can afford. Honda does make higher models available in Canada that does steer, battery start, and have electric chute direction and angle adjustment. But all of this comes at a price of over $9000.

I suggest you continue your posting without reverting to political, religious, and ethnic innuendos. I'm not trying to enforce your political correctness, but you will find your arguments will lends more credibility if you don't vent your views online.

giocam wrote:

You want to compare a track Ariens with a 342 against a wheeled Honda with a 270cc? A rather strange comparison; how many people are buying tracked snow throwers? In NJ they are as rare as an Obama supporter in a Glenn Beck audience.

Everything in the world is built to a price, even the most exotic Formula One car. Bob Gates has a cute term for defense systems that are great but too expensive, he calls them 'exquisite'. There is no reason for a home owner to buy a 'Professional' Ariens unless you wanted a larger width. Even the tracked models are available as a Deluxe or Platinum Deluxe.

I have no idea how those would pair up. From the pictures it looks like the Honda has a 14" auger with 12" impeller. With similar size scoops and a slight power advantage to the Ariens, the Ariens would probably move a bit more snow. The Ariens would have a price advantage and a huge ease of use advantage.

The better comparison, and the more relevant, would be between the 28" wheeled unit and a 30" Ariens or 28" Toro.

The 30" Deluxe would have a 305cc or last year's Subaru 287cc (better than the Honda in every conceivable way). Slightly wider auger. It would add a lever for free wheeling the left wheel to aid turning. And be $1500 less. It should match or exceed the Honda's snow removal.

The $1900 1128 Toro would be 28" with a smaller 12" impeller but a larger 342cc motor. However, the auger has a 'trick' housing to discharge residual snow back to the scoop. They say it reduces the load on the impeller allowing it to apply more force to the throw through the chute. The only way to really know would be lab tests. It has left and right freewheel levers that would let your 70 year old AUNT use it. The chute changes direction and deflection with an easy to use lever. It would probably match or slightly exceed the Honda in snow removal rate while being an order of magnitude easier to use.

I'm still trying to resolve some unknowns. The units at the top of my list are the 28" Toro 1128, 30" Deere 1330SE, and the 30" Ariens Deluxe with Subaru engine.

Who cares about impeller performance anyway. Overall machine performance is most important. My unit is a 10 year old Ariens 924108 . Iv cleared 4 - 5 blocks of snow in 2 feet plus conditions of heavy wet snow . Who cares if it doesn't throw snow 50 feet. I'm not trying to brake a window. 30 feet is plenty. All the guys on u tube with 3- 4 thousand dollar Hondas  throwing fluffy snow in the trees is crazy. My low dollar Ariens machine can do that. Show me a high dollar honda throw heavy wet snow 50 feet. I paid $800 for my Ariens- Save your money by ARIENS. My baby NEVER let me down

This one looks like pretty wet snow, thrown about 50 feet or so.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BihUW8eCTis
 
 That machine was about $2000.
 
 How much is your $800 10 year old Ariens is in today's money?

aa335 wrote:

Look at that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BihUW8eCTis

The snow blower is crawling. The snow is in a very tight, very high velocity discharge. And doesn't appear to have much mass, which accounts for its rapid movement in a tight pattern and is consistent with the slow speed.

I'd like to see two things: A side-by-side of a Honda with a comparable Ariens, Toro, Simplicity/Snapper/Deere and a writeup and some pictures of the hydrostatic drive. The only other snow blower I've seen with that is one high end Husqvarna.

Does someone have a link to Yamaha snow blowers or did they stop making them?

Answering my own questions:

1) No Yamaha in the US. They are big, expensive tracked units anyway.

2) Eaton hydrostatic drive catalog: http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/E-TRLD-TM001-E.pdf

The drive is interesting, allowing the engine to stay at peak power. They seem common in large lawn mowers. I wonder if it gives the Honda snow blowers a very high torque, low speed mode.

DavidNJ wrote:
I don't live in the US. Where I live we get a lot of snow, and like I said many people own the honda track drive. How is it a strange comparison? They are both upper class track drive machines(ie. top of the line models). Usually thats the comparison people will make. The honda will outperform the same class ariens, is around the same price, and have a much more expensive drivetrain.

The reason I keep saying to compare those is because people think honda is overpriced. They are expensive, but when you get to that class of snowblower, so is all the rest of the top brands.

I have no idea how those would pair up. From the pictures it looks like the Honda has a 14" auger with 12" impeller. With similar size scoops and a slight power advantage to the Ariens, the Ariens would probably move a bit more snow.

 

 

Up to about 2005 the Honda in side by side distance and throughput tests beats all US machines, Toro, Ariens, Simplicity, Snapper, Murray and MTD.   Somewhere around 2005 or a bit later Ariens increased their auger and impeller speed to 1300. 

 

Your 10hp MTD was probably running at 1180 or 1200 on the impeller.

 

Current Toro’s have the following for auger and impeller speeds.  Note: the 3300 is their factory setting.

Numbers supplied by the factory:

Impeller speed (3300 X 3.000/8.062) = 1228 RPM

Impeller tip speed - 3893 ft/min.

Auger speed - 123 RPM

 

Last year Toro offered some models with the Subaru engine which run at 4000 RPM so will give a boost to the above numbers.

 

The units at the top of my list are the 28" Toro 1128, 30" Deere 1330SE, and the 30" Ariens Deluxe with Subaru engine

 

An Ariens runs at 1300 with the stock engine at 3600.  With a 4000 RPM Subaru it would get a boost. 

Given your clearing area and lifespan of the MTD you could get away with a basic HD Ariens which would probalby easily last you 20 years.  

DavidNJ wrote:
What's your point?? Are you saying that the mass flow rate is low?  How did you arrive at q dot?  Are you eyes calibrated to determine density, velocity, distance, and velocity decay through youtube videos?

Snowblowers are inherently slow by nature as a trade off to allow displacement of snow to another location.  You mentioned that you have been clearing your driveway with a MTD snowblower for 14 years, at least you would have a clue.

Even a snowblower attached to 90 hp PTO of a Deere tractor is crawling into a 3 foot drift.  If you want  to see things more snow fast, get a snowplow.  But I doubt any plow with equivalent 9hp engine will displace same amount of snow weight 50 feet in the same time period as a snowblower.

DavidNJ wrote:
Yes, there is a reason.  Three , actually.  They can afford it, they want it, and they have long driveways.