Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have a moderate-sized (maybe 40' x 15') driveway constructed with paving bricks. Additionally, I have a sidewalk I'm responsible for that requires me to trudge across a neighbor's lawn to access (don't ask...). I've been using a Toro electric, but it bogs down terribly in heavier/wetter snow, and the cord makes it impossible to get to the sidewalk, which is more than 100' from an outlet. So this year I'm finally switching to gas, but it seems like I only need a single stage gas blower, since my needs aren't too heavy. There are two I'm considering, the Toro Power Clear 210R, and the Murray 1695537.

The Toro Power Clear 210R is top-rated by Consumer Reports:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100677593&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100677593&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100677593&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191#BVRRWidgetID

The Murray is getting good reviews on Amazon, but reviews elsewhere are difficult to find:
http://www.amazon.com/Murray-1695537-21-Inch-4-Cycle-Stratton/dp/B002JIN6TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284054991&sr=8-1

I know Toro's a solid brand, but what about Murray? Does anyone know anything about the brand and how the model above compares with the Toro? There's also a lot of specs, too, which I have no idea how to compare. For example:

cc's: Murray 190cc, Toro 141cc
cycles: Murray 4 cycles, Toro 2 cycles

Does this make sense to anyone? Any recommendations/experiences/thoughts?

EDIT: And just to make things even more confusing, how do these compare to the Toro PowerClear 421Q, which appears to have a different engine than the 210R?
http://toro.com/home/snowthrowers/gassinglestage/421Q.html

mml4 wrote:
I took a look at the manual and it does, indeed, say:
>> This snowthrower uses a 50:1 gasoline-to-oil mixture. Use Toro 50:1 2-Cycle Oil (Fuel Stabilizer Added) or an equivalent high-grade, NMMA TCW III-certified 2-cycle oil.

Crap. Does this mean I need to toss the gasoline already mixed with the Amsoil Saber Professional? What would be the consequences of using the Professional oil for the first two gallons and then switching to the Outboard?

Give the mix to a local landscapper and buy the right stuff.  On the other hand you probably won't do any damage and the majority of the Toro 2 stroke owners are probably using the incorrect type. If you are like me knowing  it is a new machine and now knowing what the manufacturer calls for you are going to drive yourself nuts if you don't use the TCW-3.

Peace of mind is worth the price of the correct product!

Marc

Not saying that you're OCD, but give away that gas oil mixture and get the right oil.  Toro know what's best for their engines.  Don't abuse that virgin engine with nothing less than the best oil  The agony and suffering of doubt is not worth the cost.  :)

Seriously though, you got a great single stage machine.  Enjoy it.

Okay, now I'm feeling a bit OCD and skittish about using that gas with the Saber Professional oil in the Toro. I've followed you guys this far, so I'll heed your advice and start things off right with a new mix of gas + Amsoil Saber Outboard oil.

Regarding disposal of the current gas mix, I've seen suggestions on other boards about simply pouring the gas into the 3/4 full tank of your car, which seems to make sense since the amount of oil in the gas is pretty minimal, and I only have 2 gallons of gas mixed up. I'll likely do that later this week and then get a couple of fresh gallons of gas and mix it with the Amsoil Saber Outboard oil I had delivered along with the Sta-bil fuel preservative.

Then, despite the lack of snow, I'll fill up the 221Q with the new gas mix and give her a test start. Better to know now if everything works than in the middle of a blizzard!

As always, thanks for the advice!

billin wrote:
Put the gas in the wife's car, not yours.  :)

Billin - that Lawn Boy oil you found is actually the perfect oil for your snow blower, and is the same thing as the Toro oil. The engine in the 221QR is a Briggs and Stratton R*Tek, which is simply a horizontal crank version of the Lawn Boy Duraforce engine which has been around since 1998. The Lawn Boy oil is TCW 3 and I run it all the time in my 221QR - its also cheap too and alot of home depots have it on close out.

Hey Superbuick,

Welcome back! Did Toro finally put you on their payroll yet? Hehehe. You're practically their national spokesperson.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the 221QR this year. Been pondering between this one and the 421QR, but I decided the heck with the tree huggers, I'm going to get a 2 stroke snowblower before EPA outlawed it. Sorry if I offend Toyota Prius owners.

There's a 1 year old Snow Commander available in my area, around $600 in mint condition. What's your take on it as compared to the 221QR?

Hey aa - only the spokesperson for their single stages - the rest of their stuff - meh, no thanks...:  If someone else produces a better single stage, I'll be their spokesperson too.

I also really like 2 strokes in general as you know, and seek to clarify some marketing-driven misinformation about them as well

Honestly, I'd skip the snow commander, especially at that price.  We just sold the one we had which was mint for $400, and to be honest, I think the 221/210/2450/3650, etc are better units.  They're lighter,  more maneuverable, and have the same power.

Superbuick, I'll see if I can convince someone at Toro to reconsider. It's a shame we don't have more clean burning 2 strokes OPE available.

I will pass on the Snow Commander, based on your recommendation. The Snow Commander is an interesting exercise in design and implementation. Kudos to Toro for taking risks. However, the weight and cost was just not in its favor. I'm glad Toro addressed its shortcomings in the current incarnation of the 221/421.

I must rather shamefacedly that I did, indeed, put the gas in my wife's car - it's older by a few years, has a larger gas tank, blah blah blah. In short, it didn't seem to hurt anything. :)

But now I have an issue with the Toro 221Q I was hoping you guys could help me with. In short, it won't start. This is what I did:
- Premixed some fresh gas from the pump with the Amsoil Saber Outboard oil, at around a ratio of 80:1, plus some fuel stabilizer
- Filled up the tank with about a gallon of the premixed fuel
- Turned the ignition key to the start position
- Turned the choke lever all the way to the right
- Pushed the primer button twice, holding it in for about a second each time
- Tried pulling on the cord

Nothing. I must have pulled something like 10 times, but the engine never started or even sounded like it was catching. I then tried another push of the primer button and more pulls, but still nothing.

I closed the choke, waited a couple of hours, and then opened the choke and tried again, pushing the primer button again once after it failed to start. This time, the engine seemed to catch for just a split second in mid-pull, but almost immediately therafter died - at that brief moment, a puff of smoke came out of the engine. Same on a subsequent pull, then it just went back to plain not starting.

Is there some kind of special startup procedure I need to go through to start it up the first time or something I did wrong?