Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have a moderate-sized (maybe 40' x 15') driveway constructed with paving bricks. Additionally, I have a sidewalk I'm responsible for that requires me to trudge across a neighbor's lawn to access (don't ask...). I've been using a Toro electric, but it bogs down terribly in heavier/wetter snow, and the cord makes it impossible to get to the sidewalk, which is more than 100' from an outlet. So this year I'm finally switching to gas, but it seems like I only need a single stage gas blower, since my needs aren't too heavy. There are two I'm considering, the Toro Power Clear 210R, and the Murray 1695537.

The Toro Power Clear 210R is top-rated by Consumer Reports:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100677593&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100677593&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100677593&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191#BVRRWidgetID

The Murray is getting good reviews on Amazon, but reviews elsewhere are difficult to find:
http://www.amazon.com/Murray-1695537-21-Inch-4-Cycle-Stratton/dp/B002JIN6TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284054991&sr=8-1

I know Toro's a solid brand, but what about Murray? Does anyone know anything about the brand and how the model above compares with the Toro? There's also a lot of specs, too, which I have no idea how to compare. For example:

cc's: Murray 190cc, Toro 141cc
cycles: Murray 4 cycles, Toro 2 cycles

Does this make sense to anyone? Any recommendations/experiences/thoughts?

EDIT: And just to make things even more confusing, how do these compare to the Toro PowerClear 421Q, which appears to have a different engine than the 210R?
http://toro.com/home/snowthrowers/gassinglestage/421Q.html

Thanks for the offer, SuperBuick! I got home too late last night to try again with starting the snowblower, but if it fails again, I may very well take you up on your offer to tutor me through the sparkplug removal process. Unfortunately, it's near-impossible for me to return the snowblower since I ordered it online from a place several states over - the price to be paid for cutting nearly 25% off the price - but, truthfully, I've heard so many good things about the 221Q now that I don't want to return it. At worst, I'll take it to a Toro service center and let them work it out.

Shryp, thanks for your reply. I don't think it has a fuel shutoff valve...? At least, I never saw one mentioned in the manual. The dead man switch on the snowblower only engages / disengages the auger as I understand it, and shouldn't affect the engine's running.

I trust once I get the Toro running, it'll be fine. My brother, who owns a Honda snowblower, talks about how it took him something like 10-15 pulls to start it up the first time, but in the years since it's always started up in a pull or two. Hopefully a similar situation here.... I'll post again once I've given it another try.

Thanks, guys!

Billin - I made a how-to for you.

Let me know if you need more detail or pics or whatever.

No doubt you'll have good luck with that unit. There is a reason why so many of those Toro singles from 20 - 30 years ago are still being used today. For reference, the 221 does not have a fuel shutoff.

Single stage snowblowers never came on my radar screen; I always thought they were a smaller, less expensive alternative with less power and capability. However, looking at two stage units I've found that while smaller, all but the smallest singe stage snowblowers cost as much as comparably sized or even larger two-stage units.

My curiosity peaked, what is the advantage of choosing a single stage 2-stroke snow blower over a comparably priced two stage with the same scoop width and a larger 4-cycle engine?

Speed of operation, huge maneuverability advantages, less maintenance, less weight, less space, clearing right to the pavement.

In the deepest of snows, the 2 stage wins, but everywhere/everytime else, a GOOD single stage is faster and easier to use. (key word being GOOD, because there are lots of crappy ones out there and that is where single stage units get a bad name/reputation for poor performance)

Here are some youtube links showing the capability of GOOD single stages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZC4z8x8W4g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGtEJxemf3g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHK2VO6jrc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_O6g_uHAA4&feature=related

superbuick wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I can see the manuverability, less weight, less space. How does it 'clear right down to the pavement'?  Not sure about less maintenance; two strokes have always seemed a bit of a pain to me.

In the first two videos they were using only a portion of the small 20" scoop with a bit of back and forth rocking on what seemed to be 8-10" of powder. Is that typical?

superbuick wrote:
Thanks, superbuick!! Your video was quite helpful and clearly showed how accessible the spark plug is. Eight screws, take off the shroud, then take out the spark plug with a socket wrench. It might just even be simple enough for my level of mechanical ineptitude.

I tried again to start the snowblower last night, and it still refused to start - didn't even begin to catch this time around. My first step's going to take it to a Toro service center, since it's brand new and covered under warranty. I don't want to replace the sparkplug only to have Toro refuse warranty repair because I opened the machine up, but if Toro can't come through, I'll give replacing the spark plug a try.

Thanks again!!

DavidNJ wrote:
re: clearing right down to the pavement, the auger on the single stage blower actually comes into contact with the pavement, which you can kind of see in this picture:
http://www.toro.com/home/images/sn_38584_l_xl.jpg

As for less maintenance, superbuick obviously knows vastly more on this than I do, but I know that for 2-stroke engines, the oil is mixed right in with the gas. As such, there are no oil changes needed - the oil is consumed along with the gas, as opposed to 4-stroke engines, where the oil is in a separate chamber and needs to be drained and replaced every so often.

DavidNJ wrote:

I'll make a video this winter running my 221 through whatever the biggest snow is we get (hopefully not much...I don't like snow....but usually our biggest is 15 inches or so...knock on wood) I couldn't find a great one on youtube other than the honda 621 video, which is a great video. There isn't really anything you can/need to do to a 2 stroke other than running out of gas and fogging it over the summer. Maybe a spark plug every couple of years? 4 strokes need oil changes, and regular ones since the majority of them are not filtered. On a single stage, thats a pain in the neck compared to running it out of gas and fogging it (which also needs to be done to a 4 stroke).

First, that queston mark was an error. My guess is I had a question also on the line and deleted it, getting the punctuation wrong.

Second, 2-strokes used to come big enough to match any of the units out there. The RD350 comes to mind. Why wouldn't they use a 2-stroke on a 2-stage? If it was an emissions issue on the larger ones, many of the 26" and smaller ones have 208cc motors no more powerful than the single stage 2-strokes?

Finally, superbuikck, which Buick(s) do you have? We have a '38 Special trunk-back sedan..

They did have a 2 stroke on a 2-stage - I have one.  A Toro Power Max 726te.  The emissions issue is because of how lean the EPA wants things these days.  The last years of the 2 strokes on mowers and 2 stages were getting to the point where they could barely idle they were so lean.  I don't think there is much longer to go for 2 strokes in single stages either, which is a shame because they are the perfect match for those machines.  If I'm a manufacturer, I'm not going to spend the money developing a 2 stroke for an application I can get an off-the-shelf 4 stroke for.  Any difference in power and maintenance (which in my opinion both favor the 2 stroke) I can simply talk away with clever marketing: "no messy mixing of gas and oil!!!" (because dumping 3 oz of oil into a gas can is somehow less messy than changing the oil on a 4 stroke????) and "no confusing mixing" (which, as you know, is about as confusing as putting the right amount of sugar in your coffee in the morning....).  Problem solved, goodbye 2 strokes, planet saved (well, except for the giant smoke belching coal powerplants, but we need to keep those because, er, our voters dont like nuclear power and without them...uh....we wouldn't be in office...so...uh....yeah...nuclear is bad, chernobyl, bad!) (sorry....getting political here lol)

All the handheld stuff (where a 2 stroke is sort of mandatory for power to weight/size ratio) has had to go to stratocharging and/or catalytic converters.  Sure they could totally redevelop mower and blower engines with that technology but from a business standpoint, why bother?  Just throw a readily available low-end or chinese made 4 stroke on there and charge MORE for it.


Here's a pic of a 2 stroke 2 stage, and it works fantastic...even though I don't use it that much because the single stage works so well :-)