Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have a moderate-sized (maybe 40' x 15') driveway constructed with paving bricks. Additionally, I have a sidewalk I'm responsible for that requires me to trudge across a neighbor's lawn to access (don't ask...). I've been using a Toro electric, but it bogs down terribly in heavier/wetter snow, and the cord makes it impossible to get to the sidewalk, which is more than 100' from an outlet. So this year I'm finally switching to gas, but it seems like I only need a single stage gas blower, since my needs aren't too heavy. There are two I'm considering, the Toro Power Clear 210R, and the Murray 1695537.

The Toro Power Clear 210R is top-rated by Consumer Reports:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100677593&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100677593&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100677593&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191#BVRRWidgetID

The Murray is getting good reviews on Amazon, but reviews elsewhere are difficult to find:
http://www.amazon.com/Murray-1695537-21-Inch-4-Cycle-Stratton/dp/B002JIN6TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284054991&sr=8-1

I know Toro's a solid brand, but what about Murray? Does anyone know anything about the brand and how the model above compares with the Toro? There's also a lot of specs, too, which I have no idea how to compare. For example:

cc's: Murray 190cc, Toro 141cc
cycles: Murray 4 cycles, Toro 2 cycles

Does this make sense to anyone? Any recommendations/experiences/thoughts?

EDIT: And just to make things even more confusing, how do these compare to the Toro PowerClear 421Q, which appears to have a different engine than the 210R?
http://toro.com/home/snowthrowers/gassinglestage/421Q.html

The Toro 210R / 421QR / 221QR are mechanically the same chassis and auger design.  The Toro design is more advanced and it is years ahead of the Murray, much more efficient and lighter.  The Toro also handles a lot better, easier to turn and push around.  I played around with the Murray and I found it has too much weight in front of the wheels, which makes it harder to turn and tip back.

Despite the Murray older design, it still throws snow respectably.  That engine on there looks like a vertical shaft lawn mower engine from Briggs which is located far in front of the wheels and makes it extremely front heavy.  Modern single stage snowblower have the engine located right over or near the wheel axle for that reduces polar moment for easy turning and tipping back.

For a few more bucks, I would recommend the 221QR over the 210R.  The Quick Chute feature will be enjoyed for many years after you have forgotten the price difference for it.  The 421QR has the chinese-built 4 stroke engine which is new to Toro so has no track record of reliability.

2 cycle means you will have to mix the gas with oil like other small lawn equipment.

4 cycle means the gas and oil are separate like most lawn mowers.

CC is cubic centimeter i think, basically a measure of air volume for inside the cylinder.

As for ccs, the more ccs you have the bigger/more power your engine has.
cc is kind of the new horsepower, but each manufacturer varies slightly.
cc also changes based on the type of engine design.

2 cycle engines generally have less cc per hp than 4 cycle.
overhead valve is also less cc per hp compared to the older style l-head/flat head.



You should check your local craigslist, can get some nice deals on snowblowers there.
Just make sure you do some research, some people are way overcharging.  Maybe you
can get lucky and find someone that got a new one last year and decided they want a bigger
one this year.

Thanks for the great replies!! I'm particularly happy to hear from you, aa335, since it sounds like you have some first-hand knowledge of the models in question. I never would have thought about the location of the engine and its effect on maneuverability. The handling is pretty paramount for me, and for something that will last a number of years, definitely worth paying extra for. I also like the idea of the easier adjustment of the chute on the 221Q, though it costs $160 more at Home Depot than the corresponding Toro 210, which is not peanuts. Though, if the blower lasts for 10 years... hm.

Is adding the electric start option worth it for another $60? I understand it requires plugging in the snow blower, which isn't the most convenient thing, but maybe it's still worth it in case it's difficult starting the blower with the regular pull cord. I'd be glad to hear of any experience you guys have with electric vs. recoil starting.

shryp, I definitely like the idea of trawling craigslist for deals. There are some great prices on used ones in my area, but they almost are entirely for 2-stage models, which I don't have the room for, and which would be difficult for me to push across my neighbor's lawn to get to the sidewalk. Maybe as fall approaches more people will start thinking about trading up, as you say. I'll definitely keep an eye out.

Thanks for the help, guys!

billin wrote:
The 221Q has a few things that makes it worth $160 more than the regular 210.  Quick Chute, zip deflector, pivoting scraper, and ergonomic handle.  I guess you can forgo all these features if  $160 is that critical to you.  I think the 210 model was created with basic features to meet a certain price point to appease price sensitive consumers and to phase out the Toro 2450,  which is the previous generation snowblower that is more compact..  I actually prefer the 2450 smaller size and nimble handling over the 221Q, but it is hard to pass up the Quick Chute convenience.

A properly maintained engine and cared for snowblower shouldn't really need an electric start.  I have a 10 year old Honda snowblower that starts up effortlessly on first pull at the beginning of the winter season.  Electric start does comes in handy if you happen to snap the recoil line or for someone who doesn't have the strength to pull start.  Most people who are knowledgeable enough to fiddle with their snowblowers do not really get electric start.  Save weight and money.

If you think you might need it electric start, get it as installed from the factory.  It is painfully expensive to retrofit it later on. 

I never saw a reason for electric start.  As you say, more trouble than it is worth normally.  Takes less time to pull the cord than dig for an extension cord.

You might have trouble dragging a single stage across the lawn too.  Though the single stage I used to have would just kind of skim across the snow if I pulled it backwards through the snow.
Other thing to think about is just make a path across the lawn.  I used to do it all the time with a single and now with a dual stage.  Clear a spot in the grass for the dogs in the back and the
mailman in the front.  So if that is the only reason you are not getting a 2 stage, maybe think twice.  If you are expecting 6 inches or more on a regular basis I would say go for a good used 2 stage.

You can find older 2 stage blowers for $50 - 100 if you are willing to do some work.  Worst case you can probably make a trip up to a Harbor Freight and pick up another engine for $100 and for
$150 you can have a nice machine.  Could end up being $200 - $250 if you end up replacing all the bearings and bushings if you want and then you basically have a brand new blower.

If you look there are still new in box 2450 Toro's to be had. A simple no frills unit that will give you years of trouble free service if you use fresh fuel and run/drain the tank dry at the end of the season.

I am not a fan of Toro as a company but there is no denying their 2 stroke single stage units are the "gold standard" for that type of machine. Electric start is not necessary unless you are physically challenged.

Marc

mml4 wrote:
Good thing that  you point that out.  I recalled my local Ace Hardware store still had a few new 2450 GTS available at the end of last winter around $500 which was less money than the 210R.  Same engine, same auger, auger housing.  Something to consider.

All right, you guys sold me. I put in an order for a Toro 221Q with recoil start - it sounds like the Toro 2-cycle engine is the way to go, and the extra bells and whistles on the 221Q vs the 210 are worth the bump in price. I called my local True Value hardware store looking to see if they might have a 2450, but they had no snow blowers in stock, period. I think this is the right choice for me - though I'm in NY and we do get some heavy snows here, I just don't have the room to store a 2 stage, and the extra size/weight is daunting, as is the idea of changing the oil vs. just mixing it with the gas.

Thanks, everyone!!

Glad to help out.

Can't go wrong with the Toro 221Q, the best single stage snowblower.

billin wrote:

Be prepared to smile. You are going to love that machine. Read the manual and you will find that Toro suggests you use the TCW-3 rated 2 cycle oil. That is the one rated for Marine use as opposed to the type used in leaf blowers and chain saws. It has something to do with the issue of RPM. It was told to me by  the Toro tech line that the blowers don't turn at as high an RPM so they call for the outbard oil. I have been using an Amsoil synthetic outboard oil with almost no smoke.

Marc